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 BMW M1 Physics

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Jukka Närhi
Frank Verplanken
Alberto Ibañez
Carlo Pozzi
Guillaume Siebert
Tiago Malafaya
Steve Parker
Carl Larrad
12 posters
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Steve Parker
Racing Legend
Steve Parker


Number of posts : 2000
Age : 65
Location : England uk
Registration date : 2008-12-22

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeSun 3 Oct 2010 - 17:50

i think sound needs more bass lol!
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Alberto Ibañez
Racing Legend
Alberto Ibañez


Number of posts : 16788
Age : 121
Location : International Simracing Organisation
Registration date : 2010-09-17

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeSun 3 Oct 2010 - 17:57

Carl, while we are ready to release a very good new version of the mod, I was wondering if we could not keep working on it a bit more, and add:

1.- Carset based on the official PROCAR revival at 2008 Nurburgring: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/21/bmw-m1-procar-race-celebrates-30th-anniversary-of-the-m1/

2.- New sounds based on the multiple videos that already available. I have seen videos with M1 start ups, iddle, full on, backing off, etc...

And you know what? I'm going to try to contact some of the guys who are nowadays operating M1s in official classics championships and see if they can provide more exact data about the car's suspension and behaviour. My love for these cars is becoming fanatical cheers


--- and after all, BITDT is not dead, isn't it?
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Carl Larrad
Racing Legend
Carl Larrad


Number of posts : 6751
Age : 59
Location : Swindon , UK
Registration date : 2008-12-20

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeSun 3 Oct 2010 - 18:26

I Thought you might be pleased to know that there is now no rush for this mod
as SRW already used V1 of the mod shame they could not wait as i think its there loss ...

I Have no problem with the Procar revival series as most of the cars are already painted
and if there not im in contact with most people that painted the other cars so this wont be an issue ....

Im not sure how easy it is to extract the sounds from video that we like but again this would be a great
addition to V2 ......

I Was thinking you know we had the 2 duplicate procar files in the M1 Directory was this anything to do with having
a 1979 ,1980 and then an all cars mixed season .... scratch

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Alberto Ibañez
Racing Legend
Alberto Ibañez


Number of posts : 16788
Age : 121
Location : International Simracing Organisation
Registration date : 2010-09-17

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeSun 3 Oct 2010 - 18:51

Sorry, what is SRW? Do you mean there is a web that has started a championship using our old physics?

I don't care about what others do, I have learned to like very much HSO and I am here to stay and enjoy it BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 12028

We still are BITDT and we will do what we prefer with the mod; the only "hurry" for me is ensuring the PROCAR mod is ready for HSO to mount a new championship whenever they see fit BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 296107

As for the mixed 1979-80 field, I never liked it much as it is a sort of fantasy one. It was first done to allow for a beefier field because not all 1980 cars were available, but nowadays I think it is out of interest (My opinion anyway).

The 2008 Nurburgring revival could be a very good chance for one of HSO's opens, so that we can see how the new physics work in a real multiplayer environment BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 153974 And it could very well replace the old 1979-80 mixed season.

Quote :
I Was thinking you know we had the 2 duplicate procar files in the M1 Directory was this anything to do with having
a 1979 ,1980 and then an all cars mixed season .... BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 18590

Will take a look into that ASAP

Quote :
Im not sure how easy it is to extract the sounds from video that we like but again this would be a great
addition to V2

It's worth giving it a try...I'll talk with a guy I know who is a very good sound editor. If he has some time, he might be able to help.
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Alberto Ibañez
Racing Legend
Alberto Ibañez


Number of posts : 16788
Age : 121
Location : International Simracing Organisation
Registration date : 2010-09-17

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeSun 3 Oct 2010 - 19:01

I don't see any problem with folder structure; but we need to eliminate the extra one that was once added. Also, some of the files could be packed into the compressed MAS archives and also add the pace car to the Pace Cars folder.

I suggest that you send me a link to the definitive mod when it's ready (With all repainted cars that you want to do) and then I will clean it and make a new pack for final release.
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Steve Parker
Racing Legend
Steve Parker


Number of posts : 2000
Age : 65
Location : England uk
Registration date : 2008-12-22

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeSun 3 Oct 2010 - 19:34

This video of real cars round monaco,shows they had problems with downshift on same corners i did :top:
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Alberto Ibañez
Racing Legend
Alberto Ibañez


Number of posts : 16788
Age : 121
Location : International Simracing Organisation
Registration date : 2010-09-17

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeSun 3 Oct 2010 - 19:44

Yes, had seen that video and you are right. Also, if you look at many of the modern inboard videos of M1s, you'll notice that the engines drop rpms brutally when clutching, and then jump up as clutch is engaged (Because most contemporary race drivers are not fully used to the old heel and toe). That is very telling of a very small engine inertia and a very light flywheel (Which in turn helps the engine gain rpms faster and easier). No wonder they did it so, if a 3.5 litres 6-pot had to go up to 9200 rpm. Anyway, this adds a difficulty when downshifting, because the engine drops quickly rpm and then its huge brake force easily causes rear wheels lock-up. Isn't it telling that on the 2008 revival a veteran guy (Nicky Lauda) used to the old heel and toe won the race with a comfortable distance over the next one?

I'll revise the engine file and will try to mimmick it better BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 788525
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Carl Larrad
Racing Legend
Carl Larrad


Number of posts : 6751
Age : 59
Location : Swindon , UK
Registration date : 2008-12-20

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeSun 3 Oct 2010 - 20:45

Alberto
I Have added your name onto RFC as secondary modder so you know have access to modder admin
you can announce all the updates to the mod as regards all the Physics if you like ....
I Have added your name as i have not heard from Brian Mitchell for years .... Wink

Ive also changed the website from bitdt.com to HSO
as we no longer have a website of our own , this would seem to be are home for know....

I Think an update is req on the RFc BMW M1 download page as well so we can announce all
the great people working on V2 ... :D


Last edited by Carl Larrad on Sun 3 Oct 2010 - 21:14; edited 1 time in total
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Alberto Ibañez
Racing Legend
Alberto Ibañez


Number of posts : 16788
Age : 121
Location : International Simracing Organisation
Registration date : 2010-09-17

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeSun 3 Oct 2010 - 21:06

But, where is the web?
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Carl Larrad
Racing Legend
Carl Larrad


Number of posts : 6751
Age : 59
Location : Swindon , UK
Registration date : 2008-12-20

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeSun 3 Oct 2010 - 21:12

Brian Kindly used to run bitdt website when he dissapeared so did the website .....

Sorry i meant the Download page on RFactorCentral Embarassed
http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=BMW%20M1%20ProCar%201979%2D1980
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http://www.historicsimracing.org/
Alberto Ibañez
Racing Legend
Alberto Ibañez


Number of posts : 16788
Age : 121
Location : International Simracing Organisation
Registration date : 2010-09-17

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeSun 3 Oct 2010 - 21:19

LOL ... OK

Browsing through RFC M1 page, I see that you added some skins. I take it those are not in the carset that can be downloaded from there, nor in the one downloadable from here?

It's great to see the Art Car there, I think that doing now the 2008 revival should be quite easy Cool

Anyway, is there a way we can suspend the download from RFC so that no more people get the old version? We are now close to an official update.
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Steve Parker
Racing Legend
Steve Parker


Number of posts : 2000
Age : 65
Location : England uk
Registration date : 2008-12-22

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeSun 3 Oct 2010 - 21:35

Alberto Ibañez wrote:

I'll revise the engine file and will try to mimmick it better BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 788525

No need to the extra engine braking already does that,if you dont match revs with downshift you lose the rear :top:
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Carl Larrad
Racing Legend
Carl Larrad


Number of posts : 6751
Age : 59
Location : Swindon , UK
Registration date : 2008-12-20

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeSun 3 Oct 2010 - 21:36

We have most of the cars including the french map car and the ArtCar
just need permission form DarthGoofy and Nil which i dont think will be a problem ...
I think i basically have to paint just one car most of the cars we need
are included in the mod downloaded from here or downloadable from RFc ...

I Cant believe i had extensive pictures of this car as well where the car was stored
with some of the other M1 Procars at BMW motorsport headquaters in Germany by
Bimmpower the guy who originally had a dream to get the M1 into F1C ....

It maybe an idea if Guillaume or Frank
could remove that link from this thread for know .....

I Dont think you can disable the link to V1 on RFc as you have to have at least one
downloadable link alive on the mod page ....
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Carl Larrad
Racing Legend
Carl Larrad


Number of posts : 6751
Age : 59
Location : Swindon , UK
Registration date : 2008-12-20

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeSun 3 Oct 2010 - 21:54

Ive never tried these but here is a sound patch i pulled from the site
back up your old sounds first ...

Originally posted by: modbaraban

Don't expect something entirely new. More like some fine tunning and a few added samples.



http://simracing.in.ua/ftp/Files/rFactor/Mods/BMW_M1_sound_patch.exe



Last edited by Carl Larrad on Sun 3 Oct 2010 - 21:56; edited 1 time in total
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Alberto Ibañez
Racing Legend
Alberto Ibañez


Number of posts : 16788
Age : 121
Location : International Simracing Organisation
Registration date : 2010-09-17

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeSun 3 Oct 2010 - 21:56

Steve, I have found that with this setting in the engine file:

EngineInertia=0.10000 // rotational inertia of engine components

the engine behaves a lot more like seen in the videos (Revs needle drops heavily off throttle when clutch is engaged). And it should make reductions a bit more difficult without a good heel and toe. Since the new engine brake map seems to have improved braking and hence made the car faster, I would suggest to either try this or let me reduce braking power a tad.

Quote :
We have most of the cars including the french map car and the ArtCar
just need permission form DarthGoofy and Nil which i dont think will be a problem ...
I think i basically have to paint just one car most of the cars we need
are included in the mod downloaded from here or downloadable from RFc ...

The revival had only a dissapointing 10 cars entry:

-Regazzoni 79
-Lauda with Factory 79 colours
-Art Car by Warhol
-Abel Lepitre
-Denim
-GS Tuning 80
-Alpina
-Kreis Telefonbuch
-71 white? (The only one missing)
-83 BMW France

but if we want a "fantasy" carset I would rather prefer these revival M1s together with some later cars (Basically all those at RFC plus some units that we know still exist, like the one from Piquet) than a combined 1979-80 season. At least, we would see different cars to those already known from 1979-80 PROCAR. And I guess any other currently existing PROCAR M1 would have been accepted into that revival race after all.
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Alberto Ibañez
Racing Legend
Alberto Ibañez


Number of posts : 16788
Age : 121
Location : International Simracing Organisation
Registration date : 2010-09-17

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeSun 3 Oct 2010 - 21:57

I had already that sound pack, it's OK BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 822172

[EDIT]

OK I have repacked all the updates into a 0.9.9 version: http://www.mediafire.com/?ory32pyhtdg4a6b

This does NOT need testing, but I have uploaded it for those who want to give the M1s a spin and see how it goes.

The changelog:

-Added Shifter upgrade by Jukka Maattanen
-Added Engine braking map by Steve Parker
-Modified Engine inertia
-Slightly revised final gear ratios. Now the car reaches respectively 240/270/300 Km/h
-Revised mod/championship files in rFm folder (Correct points system, training/qualy/race day/hour, and the carset uses now by default existing F1 1979 tracks, so you can run the championships if you have that trackpack installed)
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Carl Larrad
Racing Legend
Carl Larrad


Number of posts : 6751
Age : 59
Location : Swindon , UK
Registration date : 2008-12-20

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeSun 3 Oct 2010 - 22:08

Ok this is the lovely car i still have to paint so does anyone have any descent pics of all 4 sides Wink

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 M1proc10
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Alberto Ibañez
Racing Legend
Alberto Ibañez


Number of posts : 16788
Age : 121
Location : International Simracing Organisation
Registration date : 2010-09-17

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeSun 3 Oct 2010 - 22:19

I only have the ones I linked to in previous posts...

Another question for you all: Do you want that the starting tyre temperatures is hotter? Currently it takes almost two laps to warmp up them, may be that's too much? I can set any temperature as starting one, so if you feel they should be in race conditions after the warm up lap, then I can do that.
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Tiago Malafaya
Racing Legend
Tiago Malafaya


Number of posts : 3384
Age : 46
Location : Porto, Portugal
Registration date : 2008-10-05

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeSun 3 Oct 2010 - 23:19

I'm really stunned with all this activity with the M1, but I cannot stop loving the commitment Shocked :clap:
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Steve Parker
Racing Legend
Steve Parker


Number of posts : 2000
Age : 65
Location : England uk
Registration date : 2008-12-22

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PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeMon 4 Oct 2010 - 0:00

i think 2 laps to warm them up is great,most race tires take that long or longer for optimum temperatue :top:


Edit just tried the 0.9.9 version and it is now back to braking at the 5000m marker lol,best to not use the brakes at all,and use gears to slow it,because the brakes do nothing ?tested on monaco again
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Alberto Ibañez
Racing Legend
Alberto Ibañez


Number of posts : 16788
Age : 121
Location : International Simracing Organisation
Registration date : 2010-09-17

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeMon 4 Oct 2010 - 8:24

Quote :
Edit just tried the 0.9.9 version and it is now back to braking at the 5000m marker lol,best to not use the brakes at all,and use gears to slow it,because the brakes do nothing ?tested on monaco again

0.9.9 is exactly the same car has before but with your new engine parameters. May be now that it has much more engine braking you don't feel the brakes as powerful, but they are exactly as before. What about the engine quickness in dropping/increasing revs, did you like it?

Quote :
Ok this is the lovely car i still have to paint so does anyone have any descent pics of all 4 sides

I had never seen it before. Looking closer at the few available pics, it seems to have a sort of Bayern/München promo paint scheme. All that blue/white is in fact a sort of long Bavarian flag (Bavarian coat of arms is on the car's tail) and then it has drawings of some typichal bavarian monuments, like the Frauenkirche (Womens church).

[EDIT]

I have finally identified the car: It's the BMW M1 Group 4 "Munich Car", driven by Prinz Leopold of Bavaria at Le Mans 1981

Quote :
The legendary BMW M1 Group 4 "Munich Car" is also making its comeback in Le Mans: When this BMW M1 entered the classic 24 Hours in 1981, it stood out in particular through its exceptional paintwork: Where other cars were covered by the large logos and the names of major sponsors, the BMW M1 beautifully styled by paintwork artist Walter Maurer boasted hand-painted motifs of old and traditional Munich inns and landmarks, creating a link unique to this day between a car manufacturer, on the one hand, and local sponsors, on the other.
Like in 1981, this year's driver will be Leopold Prince of Bavaria, a legendary racing expert and the representative of Bayerische Motoren Werke, taking his seat in the cockpit of this exceptional car. He himself refers to his years with the BMW M1 as one of the greatest times he ever experienced in motorsport. With the exception of Formula 1 and Formula 2, the Prince of Bavaria, truly an old hand in motorsport, was active in all disciplines and competitions. And contributing all his experience, he has also been an active driver for BMW in historical motorsport since 1993.

Do a search for pics of it, there are some around cheers , specially if you look for the scale models like this one: http://i1-18sca.ipower.com/0BMW_M1_Munchen.htm
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Carl Larrad
Racing Legend
Carl Larrad


Number of posts : 6751
Age : 59
Location : Swindon , UK
Registration date : 2008-12-20

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeMon 4 Oct 2010 - 9:38

OMG Its taken me 5 years but just stumbled on this great site and it has loads of
pics of M1's ive never even seen before plus lots of pics of the Arvor car unbelievable
not sure what language its in though ....It could be French Wink

Where's my translator im going to be busy lol!


http://www.autodiva.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1261


Last edited by Carl Larrad on Mon 4 Oct 2010 - 22:14; edited 1 time in total
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Guillaume Siebert
League Owner
Guillaume Siebert


Number of posts : 13827
Age : 37
Location : Paris, France
Registration date : 2008-09-08

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeMon 4 Oct 2010 - 10:05

Yep Autodiva is french forum, quite famous in fact. They even have their own periodic.
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Steve Parker
Racing Legend
Steve Parker


Number of posts : 2000
Age : 65
Location : England uk
Registration date : 2008-12-22

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeMon 4 Oct 2010 - 10:23

Alberto,the rev drop off and pickup were nice,but something else seems to have changed,because i tried the new engine parameters before v0.9.9 and it felt great,but now the brakes seem to lock up and its like sliding on ice which it did not do before,maybe loss of front tire grip or something,will test more today :top:
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Alberto Ibañez
Racing Legend
Alberto Ibañez


Number of posts : 16788
Age : 121
Location : International Simracing Organisation
Registration date : 2010-09-17

BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: BMW M1 Physics    BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 Icon_minitimeMon 4 Oct 2010 - 14:31

Quote :
OMG Its taken me 5 years but just stumbled on this great site and it has loads of
pics of M1's ive never even seen before plus lots of pics of the Arvor car unbelievable
not sure what language its in though ....It could be French Wink

Jesus there's even a rear suspension scheme there What a Face What a Face now I will need to revise the model BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 161590

I think we could just add as carset the Nurburgring revival 2008 and leave the class open for all Gr4 M1s, so people can use and enjoy all other skins that have been created for after-PROCAR vehicles.

Quote :
Alberto,the rev drop off and pickup were nice,but something else seemsto have changed,because i tried the new engine parameters before v0.9.9and it felt great,but now the brakes seem to lock up and its likesliding on ice which it did not do before,maybe loss of front tire gripor something,will test more today BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 652294

Nothing else changed if all was done correctly, but I will double-check. May be it's a side effect of the revvy engine? Sounds not probable... BMW M1 Physics  - Page 8 18590
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