BMW M1 Physics

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Wed 29 Sep 2010 - 17:35

Here's the upgrade file; contains the H-gate upgrade and I also added a RealFeel option (SteeringFFBMult=0.0) there as it seems to work alright with the mod. Feel free to delete it if you wish.

As a bonus I put a BMW Motorsport icon in there. I primarily made it to learn how to make icons, it's a Photoshop hackjob and nothing special, but it's there Wink

Clickety click: http://www.mediafire.com/?wolwd7tg3f6u6z4

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Wed 29 Sep 2010 - 17:43

Much appreciated Jukka :top:

please everyone who uses H-pattern gearbox give it a try; if it is liked by everyone -and I'm pretty sure it will- we'll include it in the mod.

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Wed 29 Sep 2010 - 17:44

I Love the way you guys are all mucking in together :clap:

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Wed 29 Sep 2010 - 17:59

Cheers Carl

OK, I have been doing some more turns around several circuits with the last version (0.9.7 with larger suspension travel) and I honestly think we have nailed it :clap:

The car is now a dream to drive, difficult but rewarding, mild understeer at corner entry with a need for exquiste care at the exit with the gas pedal. I really love it, can't wait to try it with a wheel if it feels that good with a miserable gamepad lol!

Once you start reporting lap times we will probably see that it is still a bit too quick, but I think that it is now correctly balanced. The slight deviation from realism is in my opinion acceptable as long as it is within 3 seconds per lap. If it proves faster, I will downgrade tyres and aero a bit more.

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Wed 29 Sep 2010 - 20:40

exelent.

buy a wheel. believe me.

I did some laps at Monaco only:

fun to drive. nice slides. nice front grip. gears excellent.

no time improvement
did 1 44 00
but can do 1 42 500 cca for now. (real race 1 41 ,6) but i am not fastest in this game. looks ok-

will do more laps.

had some problems whit hot tires. every time i gone over 120 c and than problems starts. left front and both rear.

Shifter excellent. WD

***
problems:
I try to drive whit paddles and i think that every one will use patch. So dont know how to disable that if u dont use h-pattern.
any suggestions?
****
--------------------
Bugs:

Adjustable revers gear. Why we need that ? better to put in on 5th but no need.
Looks ugly. remove

and

Speed limiter in pits. i drive f1 1979(and lots of old car sims.) and i didn't notice speed limiter there. so we don't need it here.

-------------------------

will do some full tank laps later. who know what will happen to tires than.

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Wed 29 Sep 2010 - 21:05

and.

Lets have more adjustable Brake bais. It is only a knob in a car and they have that in a real car.

i dont know why we dont change some spring settings? but car is balances exelent.

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Wed 29 Sep 2010 - 21:30

Those lap times sound excellent! I think we have now the car correctly set up :champ:

Quote :: I try to drive whit paddles and i think that every one will use patch. So dont know how to disable that if u dont use h-pattern.
any suggestions?

The patch for H-shifter will be optional install. Only if you want it you will install it. :regl:

Quote :: Adjustable revers gear. Why we need that ? better to put in on 5th but no need.
Looks ugly. remove

Yup. the problem is that right now I don't know how to do that LOL scratch

Quote :: Speed limiter in pits. i drive f1 1979(and lots of old car sims.) and i didn't notice speed limiter there. so we don't need it here.

Correct. It was not IIRC in the original F1Challenge mod, then it was introduced when it was converted to rFactor. I will remove it :top:

Quote :: Lets have more adjustable Brake bais. It is only a knob in a car and they have that in a real car.

It is already adjustable! Have you not programmed keys for that? I change it with my keyboard or pad easily during the race.

Quote :: i dont know why we dont change some spring settings? but car is balances exelent.

Because in the original PROCAR the springs were fixed. Only some damper adjustments were available, as well as sway bars, brake bias and gear ratios. The good thing is that setups are easy because there are few things to tweak, and this makes it idea mod for new racers :clap:

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Wed 29 Sep 2010 - 21:56

ok.

I need more adjustable brake bais

a sad MORE adjustable

cos i drive now full rear and i like to try more. 51 49

put it from 30 to 80

and good thing is to not have to much things to change in setup.

ups edit.

i meen put it like if 80 20 to 20 80

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Thu 30 Sep 2010 - 6:13

Alberto Ibañez wrote:

Quote :: Adjustable revers gear. Why we need that ? better to put in on 5th but no need.
Looks ugly. remove

Yup. the problem is that right now I don't know how to do that LOL scratch

I just found out how to get rid of it. I'll download the latest patch later today and will fix, test and report Smile

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Thu 30 Sep 2010 - 12:20

Alberto, comparing HistorX files to the M1 I noticed there were a couple of lines missing in the M1 HDV. This should get rid of reverse gear adjustments, replace the DRIVELINE section of each HDV file with this:

Code:: [DRIVELINE]
ClutchInertia=0.0130
ClutchTorque=800.0
ClutchWear=0.0
ClutchFriction=10.225
BaulkTorque=875.0
AllowManualOverride=1
SemiAutomatic=0 // whether throttle and clutch are operated automatically
UpshiftDelay=0.28 // delay in selecting higher gear (low for semi-automatic, higher for manual)
UpshiftClutchTime=0.08 // time to ease auto-clutch in AFTER upshift (0.0 for F1 cars)
DownshiftDelay=0.28 // delay in selecting lower gear (low for semi-automatic, higher for manual)
DownshiftClutchTime=0.20 // time to ease auto-clutch in AFTER downshift (used to be SemiAutoClutchTime, note that the shift will complete significantly before the clutch is fully engaged)
DownshiftBlipThrottle=0.50 // amount of throttle used to blip if controlled by game (instead of player)
WheelDrive=REAR // which wheels are driven: REAR, FOUR (even torque split), or FRONT
GearFile=BMWM1_ratios.ini // Must come before final/reverse/gear settings!
AllowGearingChanges=0
AllowFinalDriveChanges=1
FinalDriveSetting=0 // indexed into GearFile list
ReverseSetting=0
ForwardGears=5
Gear1Setting=0
Gear2Setting=1
Gear3Setting=2
Gear4Setting=3
Gear5Setting=4
DiffPumpTorque=00.0 // at 100% pump diff setting, the torque redirected per wheelspeed difference in radians/sec (roughly 1.2kph)
DiffPumpRange=(0.00,0.00,0)
DiffPumpSetting=0 // The PROCAR apparently used the same 40% lock diff as the street version, though with cooling
DiffPowerRange=(0.40,0.00,0) // fraction of power-side input torque transferred through diff
DiffPowerSetting=0 // (not implemented for four-wheel drive)
DiffCoastRange=(0.80,0.00,0) // fraction of coast-side input torque transferred through diff
DiffCoastSetting=0 // (not implemented for four-wheel drive)
DiffPreloadRange=(0.0,00.0, 0) // preload torque that must be overcome to have wheelspeed difference
DiffPreloadSetting=0 // (not implemented for four-wheel drive)

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Thu 30 Sep 2010 - 18:57

I'm getting a CTD when copying the whole section scratch

Will try parameters one by one and see what causes the problem :cowboy:

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Thu 30 Sep 2010 - 19:11

OK found the problem, if I add this line:

AllowFinalDriveChanges=1

I get a crash to desktop :doh:

Never mind, the other code line has disabled the adjustable rear gear ratio, so all is now OK. Now I must find what its causing the pit speed limiter to keep working dispite having disabled it in the HDV scratch

One important question: I am noticing that the oil and water temperature tend to stay cool ... can anyone who has done some longer runs tell me if it stays like that? May be I should add a bit of heat to the engine :smil20:

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Thu 30 Sep 2010 - 19:24

Just had a quick play with the Ecurie Arvor car and i think this looks a little better

BMW M1 Physics - Page 6 Ecarv10

i think its a lot closer to what we want ....

One thing i did notice is the hazard lights came on the car and they would not turn off any ideas on that one .. scratch

Also still wondering is it possible to slow the AI Down as there way to fast ....

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Thu 30 Sep 2010 - 19:38

Alberto Ibañez wrote:: OK found the problem, if I add this line:

AllowFinalDriveChanges=1

I get a crash to desktop

Never mind, the other code line has disabled the adjustable rear gear ratio, so all is now OK. Now I must find what its causing the pit speed limiter to keep working dispite having disabled it in the HDV

Worked alright here Embarassed

Good thing you managed to solve it.

Edit: In the engine.ini, change the line SpeedLimiter=1 (it's at the bottom) to SpeedLimiter=0.

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Thu 30 Sep 2010 - 21:08

Carl Larrad wrote:: Just had a quick play with the Ecurie Arvor car and i think this looks a little better

i think its a lot closer to what we want ....

One thing i did notice is the hazard lights came on the car and they would not turn off any ideas on that one ..

Also still wondering is it possible to slow the AI Down as there way to fast ....

Don't forget to change the wheels :langue:

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Thu 30 Sep 2010 - 21:35

That repainted car looks sweeeeet cheers

OK, solved all problems now (Thanks Jukka! Found it already in the engine file) and introduced several changes:

-Got rid of the adjustable rear gear ratio - Thanks to Jukka Maatanen!
-Got rid of pit speed limiter
-Engine temperature revised, now it heats up OK
-Radiator opening now adjustable in 5 positions

Here's the file: http://www.mediafire.com/?nv08d2c3dt203xd

Before the engine temperature changes the car was way to cold, now it generates a lot of heat and you have to tune the radiator opening accordingly. Should suffice for all tracks. There are 5 positions and so far I get correct working temperatures over a run of several laps with opening set in "3" for Zolder and "4" in Monaco. Now all gauges in teh cockpit will come alive and show how the engine works; before they were killed in their lowest status.

The only thing that is left now is to set some tyre differences between Dunlop (1979) and Good Year (1980). If anyone has suggestions or has readed about what made the tyres different, say it.

One more thing: This is not related to my area, but I believe the tyre 3D model is WAY to wide. Those donuts look huge, and while the rela car had certainly wide tyres, they were just 235 front and 255 rear. The problem is that there are probably lots of different tyre 3D models (One for each rim) and adjusting that would be a nightmare :hum:

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Thu 30 Sep 2010 - 21:44

Alberto, I'll test when you have a "final version" for more precise feedback...

I tested your lastest update today at afternoon and noticed that the car is a little slower, but I still like it....
Feels good, drives good....

I did without Jukka's shifter upgrade to get the same feeling as before..... When you think you can't do anymore I'll do it and tell you what I think.

Cheers and thanks again for doing this :clap:

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Thu 30 Sep 2010 - 21:49

Tiago, this one is basically the last file. As I said, I might introduce slight changes in the Tyres, but those will be "backwards" to the Dunlops, i.e. I will keep the GoodYears of the 1980 championship as they are now, and tweak the Dunlops comparatively to those.

I understand that it's a bit of a PITA to keep testing new versions, but it has been most helpful for me, and we are now on the final one. The only thing I will tweak from now is BUGS, but no more changes, as I'm satisfied with all aspects of the car now.

Thanks again to all of you for your excellent and enthusiastic cooperation. :hello:

[EDIT]

Anyway, this last version doesn't really need any more testing, as the only change the car behaviour is exactly the same in the one you have tested this evening. The only real change in how the car works are engine temperatures, but according to my tests I'm sure that with one or the other radiator opening the car can be kept at correct working temperature in any track.

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Thu 30 Sep 2010 - 21:56

Quote :: Also still wondering is it possible to slow the AI Down as there way to fast ....

That's quite easy, just open the car hdv(use word or notepad) and find AIperfusage value. Slightly reduce the value, for example from 0.990 to 0,970 or more if neccesary. I can't do good lap times with my pad, so I have no Idea of how much I should reduce them. Put AI to 98% in the game and then tune the file as described until you are satisfied.

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Thu 30 Sep 2010 - 22:03

Alberto Ibañez wrote:: Tiago, this one is basically the last file.

I'll test it then with Jukka's shifter upgrade, and make the final test for the "major" feedback. I'll go to a new circuit to see how this affects everything since I got used to Zolder with the new physics..... I'll have a go at Osterreichring again and see what I can get from it :top:

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Thu 30 Sep 2010 - 22:40

Ok, this is my "final" feedback....

I just love it..... so hard to drive it well..... it just not one of those cars you "throw" at a turn to see if it goes well..... you need to work it, get used to it and drive faster and faster.... until you get over it and destroy everything :clap:

For me it's at it's peak...... I still remember the old one and OMG...... what a huge transformation.

I just get the feeling that the tyres squick should be a little louder...... I can't really tell when getting over the limit because I don't hear anything from the tyres

It really goes against my driving style (understeer) but I love it, I love a challenge and I think it is realistic enough to get it out.

Of course some ppl will love ite, some will hate it, but as far as it concerns physics, it goes pretty good with realistic behaviour. I can now feel what it is going to do just by doing some "maths" in my head while playing around

Brakes are good, dynamic behaviour good, throttle behaviour marvelous, engine so good (thks Steve) and now I get some adrenaline with the null shifter delay (thks Jukka) and the car is more progressive (probably due to the increase of ride height from 5 to 8 cm)

The only draw back for me is the tyre squick and no starter engine sound....... but that's a minor thing in my opinion

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Thu 30 Sep 2010 - 22:55

here are some m1 spec. and grup 4 spec.

if anything is missing,

http://www.projectm1.com/index_files/M1Specifications.htm

5 MPG terrible.

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Fri 1 Oct 2010 - 13:19

Quote :: I just love it..... so hard to drive it well..... it just not one of those cars you "throw" at a turn to see if it goes well..... you need to work it, get used to it and drive faster and faster.... until you get over it and destroy everything

For me it's at it's peak...... I still remember the old one and OMG...... what a huge transformation.

I just get the feeling that the tyres squick should be a little louder...... I can't really tell when getting over the limit because I don't hear anything from the tyres

It really goes against my driving style (understeer) but I love it, I love a challenge and I think it is realistic enough to get it out.

Of course some ppl will love ite, some will hate it, but as far as it concerns physics, it goes pretty good with realistic behaviour. I can now feel what it is going to do just by doing some "maths" in my head while playing around

Brakes are good, dynamic behaviour good, throttle behaviour marvelous, engine so good (thks Steve) and now I get some adrenaline with the null shifter delay (thks Jukka) and the car is more progressive (probably due to the increase of ride height from 5 to 8 cm)

The only draw back for me is the tyre squick and no starter engine sound....... but that's a minor thing in my opinion

Excellent, I'm also very happy with the results. The sound issue is a strange one, must take a look at the SFX file, but from what I have seen the sounds are there. I see that the soundpack created by another guy later was added, may be the new SFX file caused a sound to miss. As for the tyre sound, I'll see if I can raise it a bit.

Quote :: 5 MPG terrible.

I'll adjust fuel consumption accordingly :jp:

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Fri 1 Oct 2010 - 13:21

Quote :: here are some m1 spec. and grup 4 spec.

if anything is missing,

http://www.projectm1.com/index_files/M1Specifications.htm

Excellent link Sajin, had missed it somehow bounce

Would have loved to contact him and get some real life measurements of the suspension while the car was being restored :doh:

may be I can still do something about it ....

Subject: Re: BMW M1 Physics Fri 1 Oct 2010 - 15:09

Alberto Ibañez wrote:: Before the engine temperature changes the car was way to cold, now it generates a lot of heat and you have to tune the radiator opening accordingly. Should suffice for all tracks. There are 5 positions and so far I get correct working temperatures over a run of several laps with opening set in "3" for Zolder and "4" in Monaco. Now all gauges in teh cockpit will come alive and show how the engine works; before they were killed in their lowest status.

I don't pretend knowing what they did with and how they prepared the cars for each race, but I'd imagine there might have been fewer radiator adjustments, if any at all. Perhaps it should be so that the same setting would have the cars on the edge of overheating at Monaco and sort of normal temperature at faster tracks - if that's not too complicated; I haven't got a clue how to adjust the cooling.

Oh, and please, I don't deserve any personal credit, my contribution has been meager at best.

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