1964 Rand Grand Prix [15th December]

Well I have yet to talk it over with the other admins, but at first glance I don't know why we should even bother to answer to the request of cancelling an event, as made by someone who did not even bother to read the forum rules when he registered and posted with a nickname  . And then comes giving lesson of respect lol. Had we known the mod was not to be used publicaly we would have not used it. Now the event is scheduled and will go as planned I'm afraid.

This does not represent the official HSO answer in any way .

JP Campmajo wrote:

For starters, it's not our fault if a conversion is leaked.
Then, maybe I can ask you to remove Monaco from your track pack ? All the work on the harbor section was done by me, and granted I made the mistake to share my work on F1Classic, I was never given any credit for that. I'm not an admin here, but it's amazing that we are given lessons of "respecting others' work" when your team doesn't respect others in first place.

True but let's not start any "wars". We do not even know who he is (yet).

But, for the record, your work is uberrific JP

Alberto Ibañez wrote:

@mgs_ita

The admins will of course discuss the mater with you, but regarding your question "Where did you get the mod from?"

It is openly downloadable for example here:

http://f1-sim-racer.co.uk/index.php/forum/17-rfactor/21951-rfactor-servers

I don't know where the admins got it, but it's not like the latest version was hidden from the public

Excellent Alberto!
If you have a public link to the mod version 1.04 claims are absolutely not correct. I can name you (mgs_ita) some portals, involved version 1.04 and your attempts to prohibit this I assure you will not receive a success. Once again, do not leave the problem of information leakage on us!
Next time I hope you (mgs_ita) will be vigilant in information storage and avoid such incidents.
Which is bad first of all your reputation!

Vadim Sadoshenko wrote:

First you should introduce yourself to your real name. Please do not be offended, but for example, I'm not sure you are a developer. Secondly, if this version of the mod was in the network, is absolutely inadmissible be on different portals and prohibit already running of the event.
In any case, information leakage is the problem modding group and we are not obliged to suffer such problems!

Okay, maybe I've started with the wrong foot here.

I'm mgs_ita aka "GabSonic", known as Gabriele Maruca in real life.
COMS is composed by me, Oscar "Ozpata" Plada, Francesco "ChaosZero" D'Aloia and Donnie "Smallblockhero". Sadly, I don't know Donnie's last name.

The only release we released on the mainstream portals (rF Central, VirtualClassics and F1Classic) is the 1.03. Since that version, we collaborated with F1-S-R (namely Dave Purdy and François Remmen, as well as Jason White and the others) to develop a better, more realisti and more polished version. We are now in the 1.04.4, but the final release should be around 2.01, at the version we're working on is currently named 2.0.

Now, the 1.04 version (as well as the others) are only for private use by F1-S-R members, to be used exclusively on their league, as they have offered their help and a whole league to test it online and help us develop it better and better.

@ Frank: I know I didn't read the forum rules and I deeply apologize for that, but I had not the time: I've rushed to defend our work, wouldn't you do the same? If someone used your car and you knew it only the last possible second, would you not stop him?

@ JPCampmajo: I've asked Slimjim from F1Classic, the one who did the conversion and the upgrades for it. He plain and simple said that he was okay with that, he never mentioned you.
As you can read in his readme:

SlimJim Monaco Readme:

And when we asked who was the original author, we received a mail from Culmone67, that said to contact all the 1965 GPL mod team (both 1.0 and 2.x), SRMZ and F1 classic. All things we did and nobody told us a speck about you being involved. We have made our best to credit each and every one of the original creators, even Luigi70 and Wookie, even the DRM team, which granted us the permeission to use their F1 67 Reloaded sounds, even if modified.
Also, using "Guest" accounts doesn't help at all in searching for credits, chap.

Jason White, not John White. Same Jason posting here. Same Jason who made you a cubic buttload of skins. (buttload is a scientific quantity equal to the number of ping pong balls you can fit in the trunk of a 1968 Impala sedan).

I was one of the ones at F1SR testing this. There is absolutely no mention anywhere on F1SR's site that this mod is in any way restricted. I read the whole topic as I was rather rabidly happy with seeing this mod. Given how many people ran the Monza race I was in, I am afraid to tell you your mod is pretty much released publicly.

Read my PMs to you please.

Well we will go another way.
You (mgs_ita) have official permission developers of grand prix legends on converting this material?
In the context of our conversation, I am sure this is a correct question.

Vadim Sadoshenko wrote:

Well we will go another way.
You have official permission developers of grand prix legends on converting this material?

High ground Vadim, remain on the high ground. We do not do "petty" at HSO. He has a basis for his posts but I am hoping we can redirect to an outcome that will be better for all long term.

Obviously he never mentioned me, or anyone, the guy is a thief. He has a quite nice record for being in trouble with lots of people for illegal conversions, and being an a**hole too.

I still have the max file, which is dated to early 2010, just in case you feel the need to argue or belittle my involvement in the track.

So, either you release a new track pack without Monaco, and we may discuss about your request, or, you keep the track pack as is and we keep our open race like this too. Which is better for you guys ?

Oh and Vadim made me think, that Monaco conversion (Monaco rocks) was unauthorized in first place.

The only answer is that one of our F1sr league member has put the link trough here not hard to quess...

btw jason would you be so kind to get youre ass back to the f1sr forum and fill in the blanks please!

Vadim Sadoshenko wrote:

Well we will go another way.
You have official permission developers of grand prix legends on converting this material?

Sure I have, given by Bill Guillaume on behalf of: David Wright, Gary Tall, Gustavo Olivera, Steffen Weitzdoerfer, Doug Hardy, Gary Tall, Gustavo Olivera, John Franson, Rolf Farrell, Sam Dobie and the rest of the 1965 GPL mod team. Also, we received the rights for 2.01 and 2.02 from Nigel Pattinson on behalf of his co-workers.

Allright, let's arrange it like this, all of our sides are losing their dignity in this s**tstorm: mine, F1-SR's and HSO's.

You can hold the race and the championship (if you plan to do one), we keep Monaco, give JPCampmajo's his credits wherever possible in the mod and bury all this mess in the garbage-bin of the 'Net.

Deal?

lol its just hobby and nobody paid for any mod or track
did they?

mgs_ita wrote:

You can hold the race and the championship (if you plan to do one), we keep Monaco, give JPCampmajo's his credits wherever possible in the mod and bury all this mess in the garbage-bin of the 'Net.

Deal?

I don't know why, but I knew you'd come to that conclusion  

François Remmen wrote:

lol its just hobby and nobody paid for any mod or track
did they?

10 points for François. NOW I remember where I saw your name (F1SR).

François Remmen wrote:

btw jason would you be so kind to get youre ass back to the f1sr forum and fill in the blanks please!

Apologies, but he has been chained to his HSO desk   

JP Campmajo wrote:

mgs_ita wrote:

You can hold the race and the championship (if you plan to do one), we keep Monaco, give JPCampmajo's his credits wherever possible in the mod and bury all this mess in the garbage-bin of the 'Net.

Deal?

I don't know why, but I knew you'd come to that conclusion  

It was almost inevitable... a classic piece of art like that is really hard to find
Also, I'd like to apologize for my temper, I tend to... give an all out war on petty things sometimes (and certainly a huge teeth-ache doesn't help either... damned destist).

So... can we say that all of this is settled?

With all due respect to you mgs_ita. On the portal F1SR I have the opportunity to download version 1.04 even guest. That is a mod version 1.04 freely available on the network. You probably plan to visit several tens of portals to the prohibition? I assure you with such inadequate I meet very rarely.

Forgive me infinitely dear me HSO, but I am terribly indignant at such a disgrace!

Vadim Sadoshenko wrote:

With all due respect to you mgs_ita. On the portal F1SR I have the opportunity to download version 1.04 even guest. That is a mod version 1.04 freely available on the network. You probably plan to visit several tens of portals to the prohibition? I assure you with such inadequate I meet very rarely.

Forgive me infinitely dear me HSO, but I am terribly indignant at such a disgrace!

Thanks for proving that, I'll report that to Ace and Christian, the site admins.  

mgs_ita wrote:

Vadim Sadoshenko wrote:

With all due respect to you mgs_ita. On the portal F1SR I have the opportunity to download version 1.04 even guest. That is a mod version 1.04 freely available on the network. You probably plan to visit several tens of portals to the prohibition? I assure you with such inadequate I meet very rarely.

Forgive me infinitely dear me HSO, but I am terribly indignant at such a disgrace!

Thanks for proving that, I'll report that to Ace and Christian, the site admins.

I sincerely wish you successfully complete the work of this great mod!
Without doubt, this project will enjoy great popularity among connoisseurs of classic Grand Prix.
But I would say that you chose very unsuccessful form warnings HSO about this issue. Creating a rather unpleasant precedent is detrimental to the reputation. I am sure that all users understand that HSO used this version of the mod in connection with its free availability of negligence developers.
Sorry this behavior on the part of developers is unacceptable.

mgs_ita wrote:

@ Frank: I know I didn't read the forum rules and I deeply apologize for that, but I had not the time: I've rushed to defend our work, wouldn't you do the same? If someone used your car and you knew it only the last possible second, would you not stop him?

Well when we release an HSO mod to the public, the public can do what it wants with it. If we don't want the public to use it we do not make it available to the public. I, for one, downloaded this version from the F1SR site without being a member of this community - that's public release for me. As been said before we cannot be blamed for your problems of communications with your partners or their lack of careness. Please don't blame Jason, Mike or any other of our members also part of the F1SR league for something they have nothing to do with.

Anyway it's a false problem. If you've been into simracing for long enough you should now that : make it available to the public and it's considered a public mod, period. As JP illustrated perfectly you are yourself using some material from people not only without their knowledge, but even without knowing who really made them anyways. I think it's the case for all the rFactor mods that are not 100% made from scratch  . Chill.

I am truly sorry this situation occured, but then that's life. If you ever publish a 100% finished 1965 F1 mod we'll be the first interested and wish you good luck with this great project, while also congratulating you for the work already done .

François Remmen wrote:

The only answer is that one of our F1sr league member has put the link trough here not hard to quess...
anyway for repect to Gabriele I withdrawl from the race.

btw jason would you be so kind to get youre ass back to the f1sr forum and fill in the blanks please!

I am no longer an F1-S-R admin, and PLEASE do not confuse this unfortunate situation with that decision.  

Holy Christmas, this is not the way I wanted to start my weekend.

Frank, proving that admins are Gods  

Frank Verplanken wrote:

mgs_ita wrote:

@ Frank: I know I didn't read the forum rules and I deeply apologize for that, but I had not the time: I've rushed to defend our work, wouldn't you do the same? If someone used your car and you knew it only the last possible second, would you not stop him?

Well when we release an HSO mod to the public, the public can do what it wants with it. If we don't want the public to use it we do not make it available to the public. I, for one, downloaded this version from the F1SR site without being a member of this community - that's public release for me. As been said before we cannot be blamed for your problems of communications with your partners or their lack of careness. Please don't blame Jason, Mike or any other of our members also part of the F1SR league for something they have nothing to do with.

Anyway it's a false problem. If you've been into simracing for long enough you should now that : make it available to the public and it's considered a public mod, period. As JP illustrated perfectly you are yourself using some material from people not only without their knowledge, but even without knowing who really made them anyways. I think it's the case for all the rFactor mods that are not 100% made from scratch  . Chill.

I am truly sorry this situation occured, but then that's life. If you ever publish a 100% finished 1965 F1 mod we'll be the first interested and wish you good luck with this great project, while also congratulating you for the work already done .

In fact I apologize to have messed the weekend start for everybody involved. As for JP, I didn't know because nobody told me (someone even told me that it was all Com8's work!), but now me and the whole team know and we'll get even with the credits where credits are due, fair and square: we made all we could to get all the credits, but because of some... "name" issues here and there (guest accounts, people crediting only nicknames and not real names... and so on) we ended covering all the people involved except JP, and I'm deeply sorry for that, if only I knew earlier.  
Well... that's how life goes.  

Now, if I only had the meanings to pay you guys each one a beer to apologize properly, I'd do ;9

Gabriele we need from you a more symbolic act of reconciliation. You should take part in this wonderful event. What I am ready to release the car to number seven!
I and Sir John Arthur Jack Brabham insist on this!

Gabriele Maruca wrote:

Now, if I only had the meanings to pay you guys each one a beer to apologize properly, I'd do ;9

You already deserve a toast for the mod so far. This thing is freaking fun!       

Good to see things were dealt in a gentlemanly manner
Welcome Gabriele  

Guillaume  @ your new avatar ... now that is a proper avatar for a retired guy