Round 3 - Grand Prix de Monaco [Apr 8th]

Another race, another broken Lotus.

It took me until the final 5 minutes of qualifying to set a 1.24 and I lined up 20th, 3 places behind my usual teammate Richard Wilks. Mick obviously hadn't received the note he was in the third car and outqualified us in 11th. The team will not have you back for Zandvoort.

My aim was to drive calmly and avoid all accidents in the opening laps. And I did that, despite Raul going for a close encounter at the last hairpin. My pace wasn't great but after 15 laps I still had a perfect car to battle Jonathan with.

By then it was time for my usual accident. It was either going to be the chicane or the bump near the Casino. I went for the latter. I got the car back to the pits with a bent rear right suspension which was only moderately repaired by my pitcrew. They were probably out of spares after all the crashes I had in qualifying.

Back on track I was even slower but I could live with it. My only worry was uphill at St Devote where the car developed a nasty pendulum effect. I knew it would end badly, and indeed two laps later I could park it outside the Casino with a missing wheel.

I wasn't too disappointed. I was the slowest on track when the car had all wheels pointing in the right direction so points were unlikely anyway, even if I lasted the distance.

Next time at Zandvoort I won't be Fittipaldi, but Dave Walker in the turbine car. He crashed out. I'll probably do the same.

a so boring race for me

no pace / impossible to compet / every lap , every corner car felt différent .

I hate this feeling that it s not you drive the car but the opposite

I finished 3rd a lap behind Grant and Austin / close 2 laps front of David . so 77 laps alone and it s very long , I thought to make escape minimun 20 times for sure .

well done all finishers

see ya next time

Greg Goissen wrote:

a so boring race for me    

no pace / impossible to compet / every lap , every corner car felt  différent .

I hate this feeling that it s not you drive the car but  the  opposite

I finished 3rd  a lap behind Grant and Austin /  close 2 laps front of  David . so 77 laps alone   and it s very long , I thought to make escape minimun 20 times for sure .

well done all finishers

see ya next time

Boy, do I hope to ever be able to post something like this after finishing third at Monaco.

I would probably be so overwhelmed with awe that I would loose all ability for writing.

Timo

BTW: how can I use the Monaco-track with other AMS content besides the F1 71-mod?

Track does not show up in my track list when other cars than the F1 71 are selected. I guess I need to change what used to be the gdb-files in rFactor? How do I do that in AMS?

Thanks in advance,

Timo

Timo Vermeersch wrote:

BTW: how can I use the Monaco-track with other AMS content besides the F1 71-mod?

Track does not show up in my track list when other cars than the F1 71 are selected. I guess I need to change what used to be the gdb-files in rFactor? How do I do that in AMS?
Thanks in advance,
Timo

Edit Monaco71.gdb
Try putting a * at the end of the filter line.
eg
Filter Properties = RoadCourse 2005 SRGrandPrix OWChallenge
to
Filter Properties = RoadCourse 2005 SRGrandPrix OWChallenge *

One day, One of these days I'll be like Ayrton Prost up there and bemoan how much I wanted to park my car whilst Qualifying 2nd and running in 3rd the whole day. Meanwhile down in the real world, where there were 7 of us who couldn't run fast enough to even qualify....much less bemoan how terrible our race was because we were stuck by ourselves....in 3rd...

Regardless, I was on the fence, I knew the 27 I'd been able to run during the week wasn't gonna cut it, I'd hoped with increased usage the track might rubber in and gain a bit of traction, and or the number of people complaining about horrible FPS would do the Smart thing and NOT race because entering a race at Monaco and just hoping no one crashed and caused your sim to turn into a slideshow is the same as slapping some kind of restrictor on 40 cars engines and turning them loose on a 2.5 mile oval and telling them NOT to run in a massive pack, i.e. it's NOT going to happen. I was surprised to see people in this thread preaching doom and gloom for race day because every time someone touched the wall their sim all but stopped functioning, then to see them show up for the race.

Anyway, that Rant over, I did observe some things during the race that really irked me, and I wasn't in the thing. Too many guys, especially in the back were being very aggressive in the defense of their positions, especially in the early stages of the race. In addition some, usually the same, were being overtly aggressive in their attempts to move up positions, I watched at least two drivers simply force their way inside someone and then just shove them out of the way.

All these aside, it was a pretty damn good race for the upfront for most of the race, and there was some good racing down the order as well.

I was pleasantly surprised to see the first lap, at Monaco, run without an incident

Grant, when are you going share your Tire Hacks with everyone else? You're throwing up more smoke in every corner than the Springfield Tire Fire and showing no signs of flat spotting...

Anyways....On to Zandvoort where I intend to make the race.

Jason Fitch wrote:

slapping some kind of restrictor on 40 cars engines and turning them loose on a 2.5 mile oval and telling them NOT to run in a massive pack,

Did Nascar not do just that??

David Sabre wrote:

Timo Vermeersch wrote:

BTW: how can I use the Monaco-track with other AMS content besides the F1 71-mod?

Track does not show up in my track list when other cars than the F1 71 are selected. I guess I need to change what used to be the gdb-files in rFactor? How do I do that in AMS?
Thanks in advance,
Timo

Edit Monaco71.gdb
Try putting a * at the end of the filter line.
eg
 Filter Properties = RoadCourse 2005 SRGrandPrix OWChallenge
to
 Filter Properties = RoadCourse 2005 SRGrandPrix OWChallenge *

Thanks for the feed-back David, but it still does not work?

Timo Vermeersch wrote:

David Sabre wrote:

Timo Vermeersch wrote:

BTW: how can I use the Monaco-track with other AMS content besides the F1 71-mod?

Track does not show up in my track list when other cars than the F1 71 are selected. I guess I need to change what used to be the gdb-files in rFactor? How do I do that in AMS?
Thanks in advance,
Timo

Edit Monaco71.gdb
Try putting a * at the end of the filter line.
eg
 Filter Properties = RoadCourse 2005 SRGrandPrix OWChallenge
to
 Filter Properties = RoadCourse 2005 SRGrandPrix OWChallenge *

Thanks for the feed-back David, but it still does not work?

ETA: Nevermind. I have the same issue. If I switch out of the '71 F1s it disappears.

Greg Goissen wrote:

a so boring race for me    

no pace / impossible to compet / every lap , every corner car felt  différent .

I hate this feeling that it s not you drive the car but  the  opposite

I finished 3rd  a lap behind Grant and Austin /  close 2 laps front of  David . so 77 laps alone   and it s very long , I thought to make escape minimun 20 times for sure .

well done all finishers

see ya next time

i feel it the same, as i told it on interview, every lap the car was different, one lap nerly OK, then totaly unpredictable then again OK then again unpredictable (understeer, oversteer) so it is hard to drive it well and maintain tyres from flatspots which i got around lap 30 (so i will be tightening all screws in wheel because they must loosen after 50 laps of vibrations),

as i watched part of livefeed, i dont undertand how the leaders can care of tyres when they was smoking their tyres on brakings (and in turns too) and on exits from turns (powerslides) , i was trying to barke only in straight directions but sometimes is situation when i must little brake in corner to work with over(under) steers

Jason Whited wrote:

Timo Vermeersch wrote:

David Sabre wrote:

Timo Vermeersch wrote:

BTW: how can I use the Monaco-track with other AMS content besides the F1 71-mod?

Track does not show up in my track list when other cars than the F1 71 are selected. I guess I need to change what used to be the gdb-files in rFactor? How do I do that in AMS?
Thanks in advance,
Timo

Edit Monaco71.gdb
Try putting a * at the end of the filter line.
eg
 Filter Properties = RoadCourse 2005 SRGrandPrix OWChallenge
to
 Filter Properties = RoadCourse 2005 SRGrandPrix OWChallenge *

Thanks for the feed-back David, but it still does not work?

ETA:  Nevermind. I have the same issue.  If I switch out of the '71 F1s it disappears.  

OK, I found the trick. The track.gdb file has to be adjusted as above.

In addition, there is a Track Filter-line in each series.srs file. That line also needs a "*" added. Then it works.

Timo

It is the length of a slide that dictates when flatspots occur.
The wheel must lock up for a certain amount of time (dictated by the game files) for a flatspot to occur.
Sliding won't really do it unless the brake has locked.  Flatspots (depending on severity) can also "evaporate" as time passes.

I'm not sure all the smoke we see from Grant's tires is always on locking....appears to be on traction at times.
This will not cause the flatspotting you describe from locking the wheels.

Car was definitely unpredictable.  But honestly, I've never understood the idea that these old cars should be wholly predictable.  Part of racing, especially full length races, is adapting to an ever changing car, not just memorizing and repeating.  As fuel burns off and the tires change, brakes heat, etc etc...the car is going to change (if it didn't, I would actually be worried about the mod)...
That is amplified by a track like Monaco, especially this version.  Bumpy as all hell, the track surface is not really "smooth"...so lots going on in the suspension and such.  

Same for me too though, and that's why I finally ate it at the top of the hill.  Pushing to catch Mick because I felt like I was gaining some time on him, after giving up the position on a dumb 25mph spin

..should have just backed off, but didn't and will live with it.

About 3/4 the way into the race the car really became unpredictable to me.  Constantly on the look out for it biting me, and it tried many times.  Much of that I knew was coming because as the fuel burned off the car got really loose.  I worked all week with it, but finally conceded the fact I could not tune it out completely and came to a balance and just tried to adapt as it came to me.

Perhaps in modern cars everything is more "predictable"....but to me, part of the atmosphere of these cars and similar IS the unpredictable nature of the cars.
Much more of a challenge to drive an ever changing car at 90%-95% than to go 100% in a wholly predictable car (if such thing exists).  Can't really ever go 100% in these things without the associated risks, is the nature of the beast.
I doubt they spent much time at 100% in any of these old races.  Perhaps at times, in quali or something.  But there is no way they raced full length at 100%.  Many reason, the unpredictable nature of the car just being one of them (fear of knowing that barrier can kill you probably, and watching that happen to many others, probably didn't help with pushing 100% for most either)  Surely a few "crazy" ones, but I bet even they spent much of their time adapting to the changing car and just trying to predict the unpredictable best they could.

...but, that's just my opinion, so not worth all that much.

think i can admit what Greg said

first , my excuse for speaking loud in Qualify
damn i was sor frustrated , being scared the track wont work and 2nd the hughes fps loss
for everybody, lucky thing the race went on
couldn't qualify at all with all the fps hit losses and just pressed escaped many attempts
man a DNQ wth but this years f1 season i have to be glad to be on the grid cause i am at total loss to get the gamepad working and find the speed to compete , well at least a top 10 as im a average driver.

i cannot dial it in , its or to slow or to fast with the steering , what ever i tried
thinking to delete all the ffb and plr and replace it with the rfactor i use
and hope ams will read it , otherwise im consider to drop out cause frustrating myself in efford to make tracs working  and test with David Sabre and not able to race them i just cannot let that happen

is there anybody here using a gamepad and can get it work properly in ams let me know

this time FD needs your help now!

but lucky i can distract myself to work on the 91tracks and ofcourse prepare for the great 74usac races !

That was physically and mentally one of the hardest races I've ever done!

Qualifying was so hard to get a lap in without loosing to much time due to the FPS but then again everyone had this problem so cant complain! Very pleased to off gained pole!

My start was poor, but expected. I had a decision to make with my gearing, sacrifice my 1st gear for the start or set it up to use it efficiently in the race, I went with the latter.

Was gifted 2nd spot when Greg went wide and then set about to reclaim 1st, knew by pushing I was raising the risk of crashing so as soon as my opportunity arrived I went for the overtake on Austin (with some huge flatspots) and set about pacing myself.  for the rest of the race it was just managing my tyres and pace, I had a good setup and car underneath me and I was pleased with the balancing. Soon as I crossed the line I instantly felt how knackered I was  

Over the last few races ive learnt this Surtees has some major understeering problems. last race I managed to break most of that issue with setups and im glad with how the car is handling.. If anyone wants the run down on the setup ive been using give me a PM. More than happy to share any advice or tips

So glad with this win, Feel bad for Coxon as I wish he was up their too last night!

Great racing all round and well done to all the finisher and most of all everyone who started. We went through the first few laps without any pile ups and that something we can all be proud off!  

Broadcasting was on point as per so thanks Jason, Alberto and Jonathan

Jason Fitch wrote:

Grant, when are you going share your Tire Hacks with everyone else? You're throwing up more smoke in every corner than the Springfield Tire Fire and showing no signs of flat spotting...  

No hacks... Most of what your seeing is acceleration lighting up the wheel, I do lock up in turns often but nothing major, I ALWAYS use 75% brake pressure and around 54 front bias. This reduces the lock ups to some extent but the biggest tip I could give anyone is to NOT use the brake hardly at all when braking.. Sounds stupid I know but there is a very fine line between using too little brake and using too much, but when you hit the middle you brakes will be at top performance.

Well done Grant

Jason Whited wrote:

I've never understood the idea that these old cars should be wholly predictable.  Part of racing, especially full length races, is adapting to an ever changing car, not just memorizing and repeating.  As fuel burns off and the tires change, brakes heat, etc etc...the car is going to change (if it didn't, I would actually be worried about the mod)...

Perhaps in modern cars everything is more "predictable"....but to me, part of the atmosphere of these cars and similar IS the unpredictable nature of the cars.
Much more of a challenge to drive an ever changing car at 90%-95% than to go 100% in a wholly predictable car (if such thing exists).  Can't really ever go 100% in these things without the associated risks, is the nature of the beast.
I doubt they spent much time at 100% in any of these old races.  Perhaps at times, in quali or something.  But there is no way they raced full length at 100%.  Many reason, the unpredictable nature of the car just being one of them (fear of knowing that barrier can kill you probably, and watching that happen to many others, probably didn't help with pushing 100% for most either)  Surely a few "crazy" ones, but I bet even they spent much of their time adapting to the changing car and just trying to predict the unpredictable best they could.

 Right on!

Alberto Ibañez wrote:

Quote :

Pourquoi lors d'un arrêt aux stands sur le spot prévu à cet effet, il y avait 240 secondes de pénalité (minimum), à chaque fois (même s'il n'y avait pas de réparation à faire sur la voiture)?

Cela peut être pour plusieurs raisons Peut être une erreur de jeu ou une pénalité correcte. Quelle raison vous a donné le jeu pour cela?

Remorquage jusqu'au stands (si je comprends bien?).

Quote :

Y aura-t-il d'autres circuits aussi lourds et exigeants graphiquement que Monaco, et lesquels? 

Monaco est dans une ville avec de nombreux bâtiments et objets. Il n'y a plus de circuits comme celui-ci dans le calendrier. Les autres circuits seront des conversions que nous avons déjà utilisées dans rfactor1. 

Montjuic est aussi en ville et je n'avais pas les problèmes de "ralentissement" qu'il y avait à Monaco...
Je crois que pour Monaco il y a beaucoup d'images disponibles de chaque année de Grand-Prix et les passionnés de réalisme des décors s'en donnent à cœur-joie  pour en rajouter, jusqu'à rendre la simulation injouable...

Quote :

Serait-il possible, si c'est le cas, de disposer du circuit au moins une semaine avant la course? 

Notre intention est qu'il en soit ainsi, mais parfois le travail est prolongé et nous ne pouvons pas avoir le circuit disponible avant la semaine précédente. Mais nous voulons faire avancer la disponibilité des circuits pour pouvoir les tester en ligne avec plus de pilots et avec suffisamment de temps pour résoudre n'importe quel problème.

Je suis volontaire pour faire des tests de courses à plusieurs pilotes pour prévenir des éventuels problèmes comme ceux rencontrés dimanche soir avec le départ et la ligne des stands.

Merci pour avoir pris le temps de me répondre Alberto  

[quote="Philippe Martinelli"]

Alberto Ibañez wrote:

Quote :

Pourquoi lors d'un arrêt aux stands sur le spot prévu à cet effet, il y avait 240 secondes de pénalité (minimum), à chaque fois (même s'il n'y avait pas de réparation à faire sur la voiture)?

Cela peut être pour plusieurs raisons Peut être une erreur de jeu ou une pénalité correcte. Quelle raison vous a donné le jeu pour cela?

Remorquage jusqu'au stands (si je comprends bien?).

same here every time when i came to pit 240s penalty without any reason .

only Yves and me did that ?

Quote :

Remorquage jusqu'au stands (si je comprends bien?).

Ah bon, c'est mon erreur. Je pensais que vous parliez d'une sanction, pas d'une conséquence d'être remorqué. Nous n'avons pas pu trouver la raison de cela 

Quote :

Montjuic est aussi en ville et je n'avais pas les problèmes de "ralentissement" qu'il y avait à Monaco...
Je crois que pour Monaco il y a beaucoup d'images disponibles de chaque année de Grand-Prix et les passionnés de réalisme des décors s'en donnent à cœur-joie  pour en rajouter, jusqu'à rendre la simulation injouable... 

Oui, mais Montjuic est un ancien circuit GPL, alors que Monaco vient de rF2, ce qui est beaucoup plus exigeant avec le PC. 

Quote :

same here every time when i came to pit 240s penalty without any reason . 

only Yves and me did that ?

It's not penalty (That confused me when Philippe also said it was a penalty), it is just the time it takes to tow the car to pits. But of course that is not logical when you are already in the pits. 

Alberto Ibañez wrote:

It's not penalty (That confused me when Philippe also said it was a penalty), it is just the time it takes to tow the car to pits. But of course that is not logical when you are already in the pits. 

I think it is because the pit and the garage are in different places. We had the same at Kyalami, but there it was only 10sec or so because the pit and the garage were virtually next to each other. In Montjuic, where pits and garage are in the same place, the issue did not occur.

Timo

Quote :

I think it is because the pit and the garage are in different places. We had the same at Kyalami, but there it was only 10sec or so because the pit and the garage were virtually next to each other. In Montjuic, where pits and garage are in the same place, the issue did not occur.

Pits and garage are usually in different places. Montjuic is an exception because of the lack of space, but at Kyalami for example you had the garage area clearly behind the pits. However - there is indeed something different in Monaco and you got me thinking about it. The garage entry is OUTSIDE the pits. Maybe that's the reason

Alberto Ibañez wrote:

Quote :

I think it is because the pit and the garage are in different places. We had the same at Kyalami, but there it was only 10sec or so because the pit and the garage were virtually next to each other. In Montjuic, where pits and garage are in the same place, the issue did not occur.

Pits and garage are usually in different places. Montjuic is an exception because of the lack of space, but at Kyalami for example you had the garage area clearly behind the pits. However - there is indeed something different in Monaco and you got me thinking about it. The garage entry is OUTSIDE the pits. Maybe that's the reason

In Kyalami, I also had the tow time even when stopping in the pit at the indicated spot. But there it only was 10 to 12 seconds because the garage and the pit were indeed very close one to another.

Timo

Timo Vermeersch wrote:

Alberto Ibañez wrote:

Quote :

I think it is because the pit and the garage are in different places. We had the same at Kyalami, but there it was only 10sec or so because the pit and the garage were virtually next to each other. In Montjuic, where pits and garage are in the same place, the issue did not occur.

Pits and garage are usually in different places. Montjuic is an exception because of the lack of space, but at Kyalami for example you had the garage area clearly behind the pits. However - there is indeed something different in Monaco and you got me thinking about it. The garage entry is OUTSIDE the pits. Maybe that's the reason

In Kyalami, I also had the tow time even when stopping in the pit at the indicated spot. But there it only was 10 to 12 seconds because the garage and the pit were indeed very close one to another.

Timo

As did I. But I found that if I pulled ahead of the pit box just slightly rather than stopping in it, that 10 second tow time was cut to either 3 seconds, or sometimes no wait.

when it will be possible to try new version of car (for race 4. and subsequent), vill be there new update or how to unlock the upgrade? (Ferrari #6)

Michal Janak wrote:

when it will be possible to try new version of car (for race 4. and subsequent), vill be there new update or how to unlock the upgrade? (Ferrari #6)

It should be already available in the menu  The only cars that will appear in a later patch are the custom Monza ones (No wings).