Round 2 - 1987 Norisring DTM [rF2 | February 5]

merci frank !!

#17 BMW 635

Poor BMW M3 is not popular . Big up to Christian for committing to one though . The DTM was one of the few Group A series without displacement classes, in almost every country the M3 would have run in a different class than the bigger cars it faces here at Norisring.

yes, light but not enough!  
I think it only remains for me to hope to be regular and not to make mistakes ...  
Even the Rover, with these 160kg more, at equal power, seems to go much faster ... (but, it there is the pilot too )

@Christian Dauger oui + 1 pour le pilotage , je suis au moins deux secondes derrière les autres mais un autre paramètre a prendre en compte se sera la météo et là il pourra y avoir des surprises

Ma priorité ? pas d'accrochage et finir la course !

@François, d’après les prévisions météo, si elles sont vraiment indexées, ça devrait être sec... (regarde en 1ere page)

@Franck ? indexée sur la météo réelle ?

Bruno Chacon wrote:

What is the ideal operating temperature for the brakes?

Brake Front:300-500 Rear:300-490

#10 please

Gérard Ryon wrote:

Bruno Chacon wrote:

What is the ideal operating temperature for the brakes?

Brake Front:300-500 Rear:300-490

Thank you Gérard.

Race server launched, with 60 minutes practice session before qualifying.

I am sorry guys, problems at work....

oh...

i write it wrong to callendar , just realized race today

Race results and Gold Star standings updated .

Paul you had a wrong car : you should have used the #8 car not the #1

Frank Verplanken wrote:

Race results and Gold Star standings updated .
Paul you had a wrong car I think

Will I be punished?

This is my car on the entry list #8 2.0t Ford Sierra RS Andy Rouse Engineering
The results show Paul Velasco 2.0t Ford Sierra RS Cosworth Andy Rouse Engineering
So not sure where it went wrong...

Apologies to Cezar for the lap 2 thing. That was ugly. Sorry

Grats David

No DNFs

What a race ! Despite some troubles at the 2nd lap, the rest was the greatest fun I had in simracing so far. Great, great battle at the end of the race with Ray and Steve. Bringing the bulky Volvo from 12th back to the 4th place was more than expected
My big appreciation to Frank's sportsmanship- I have no doubt that this is the greatest racing with the greatest drivers I don't blame you at all- I've experienced what missed braking point means in this car    With this kind of contact only my rear bumper should fly off the car. Today's racing sims still misses the proper damage/collision model IMO

Despite not the best aero shape of 240 model, the turbocharger did it's job and surprised me couple of times when racing wheel to wheel with BMW's and sleek shaped Steve's Rover. The race reminded a lot of my first race at HSO with NZTCC series at the end of 2018

My apologies to Christian Dauger- tried to avoid the contact as hard as I could, but Volvo didn't wanted to brake harder nor steer any more to the inside of the last corner hopefully the contact was slight as I watched the replay

Can't wait for the next round

Une course propre , nous étions un petit groupe a faire du 0.53 secondes au tour en qualification , cela pouvait présager d'une belle bourre a condition de tenir le rythme. Il y a eu des incidents impliquant plusieurs voitures , je me retrouve en P8 mais pas pour longtemps. Bref, un sprint agréable motivé pour finir la course et piloter en sécurité, c'est vraiment le principale.

Félicitation a tous les pilotes du premier aux derniers

Michal Janak wrote:

oh...

i write it wrong to callendar , just realized race today

I know better teammate, you are still hungover from the Ferrari victory party.

I would like to officially protest against David Jundt.

In lap 28 (Position: 1530)  I overtook him fairly in the first corner, at the exit it came to a contact although I was clearly in front. This scene could be seen as a racing accident, because I came a tick too far to the outside at the exit of turn 1.

But even at the moment when our vehicles collide, he goes full throttle without making any effort to lift the throttle or brake and just turn around my car completely. That behavior is just really unsportsmanlike and in my opinion against the HSO sporting code.

Jan Titz wrote:

I would like to officially protest against David Jundt.

In lap 28 (Position: 1530)  I overtook him fairly in the first corner, at the exit I came into contact although I was clearly in front. This scene could be seen as a racing accident, because I came a tick too far to the outside at the exit of turn 1.

But even at the moment when our vehicles collide, he goes full throttle without making any effort to lift the throttle or brake and just turn around my car completely. That behavior is just really unsportsmanlike and in my opinion against the HSO sporting code.

Send Frank a PM please Jan.

Hi Folks

Having finished my first online in years and my first finish with HSO, I can say one thing I am very impressed with the organisation and discipline by all concerned. Excellent organisations by all the behind-the-scenes guys that make it happen. Thank You.

Now some thoughts:

There is clearly at least three of levels of skill/talent among drivers in our league. Some aliens, some very fast guys and some gentlemen drivers - I am the latter.

The gap between the best and the rest is about 2-seconds around Norisring!

In real life, this happens a great deal as there is a mix of Pro drivers and Gentlemen drivers, especially in GT3 the gaps even bigger than two seconds between the fast and not so fast... They are categorised as Gold, Silver and Bronze drivers.

After Norisring a very fast driver was not happy with some slower guys when lapping them, this got me thinking about this, because as a Gentleman driver I feel pressure not to mess up when I am with much faster guys on a server.

Perhaps a system of driver ranking would be cool to consider.

It's worth noting that in GT3/Le Mans Cup etc racing drivers are ranked as explained here:
https://jalopnik.com/why-everyone-is-freaking-out-about-driver-rankings-an-1681325162
https://www.lemanscup.com/en/news/what-is-a-bronze-driver/644

I quote from the above to suggest this could serve as a basic template for HSO:

BRONZE driver is defined as an amateur driver who meets at least one of the following criteria:

1. any driver who was over 30 years old when his/her first licence was issued, and who has little or no single-seater experience;
2. any driver over 30, previously categorised as Silver, but with no significant results (titles, pole positions or race wins);
3. any driver under 30 years old with a licence issued for the first time during the year of his first categorisation.

SILVER is an amateur driver satisfying at least one of the following criteria:

1. aged under 30 and not satisfying the criteria of categories Platinum and Gold;
2. has finished in 1st place in the general classification of regional or major national championships or international series, or has won a major endurance race;
3. has won a non-professional drivers' series*
4. has competed competitively in high-level international karting competitions;
5. A driver whose performances and achievements, despite not being covered by one of the definitions above, may be considered as Silver by the FIA.

GOLD is an amateur or professional driver in FIA international and national series satisfying at least one of the following criteria:

1.  finished in the top 3 in the general classification of a secondary international single-seater series
2. won the general classification of a regional or national single-seater series *
3. raced in championships counting towards Article 5.1.7(a) of Appendix L of the International Sporting Code with racing wins, podiums and pole positions.

This could perhaps serve as a template for a similar system of grading for HSO drivers.

This would be useful to have in place, then at least those of us racing who can never win, at least can battle with drivers of their level - sort of a race/championship within a race/championship or divisions within each race/ championship.

And also allows the very fast guys to know what kind of drivers they are competing with and adjusting their tactics with this in mind when they are busy lapping the gentlmen.

With sim racing now no longer only for weirdos like me, it is now mainstream and eSport is sexy (we could have told you that 20 years ago!)

I think the best templates to make things work optimally is to copy the real-life models and tweak them for our world of virtual racing. And driver grading is something I suggest for the admins to consider in the short or long-term.

Other than that, can't wait for my next HSO race!

je suis venu ici pour participer a des courses et me détendre sérieusement en respectant les règles essentielles au bon déroulement des épreuves. Il est très important que tout le monde se respecte, le platine comme le bronze.

Le problème des classements est un sujet connus, mais le principal soucis s'est le nombre de participant. Si tu as 60 pilotes au minimum tu peux faire des divisions et faisant plusieurs courses sur le même circuit/épreuve.

Mais avec 16 pilotes inscrits, nous sommes bien obligés de mélanger les niveaux pour faire un événement.

Mélanger les niveaux, oui, mais il peut y avoir un classement par catégories à l'intérieur d'un championnat/course ...ça se tient .

Agreed. Buut surely we expect fields to grow?
Then it is good to be ready...
Anyway, just a thought - I am journalist, we write and ask questions!

François Violet wrote:

je suis venu ici pour participer a des courses et me détendre sérieusement en respectant les règles essentielles au bon déroulement des épreuves. Il est très important que tout le monde se respecte, le platine comme le bronze.

Le problème des classements est un sujet connus, mais le principal soucis s'est le nombre de participant. Si tu as 60 pilotes au minimum tu peux faire des divisions et faisant plusieurs courses sur le même circuit/épreuve.

Mais avec 16 pilotes inscrits, nous sommes bien obligés de mélanger les niveaux pour faire un événement.

I don't think the Gold/Silver/Bronze system is applicable to HSO.

For one thing, simracing is much more clustered than real motor racing and doesn't have a centralized federation or body managing it all. So it would be hard to determine each simracer's level based on his results as those would be hard to fetch. Also how do you determine which simracing leagues are regional, national, primary or secondary international ? The ladder system is very well established in real life motor racing, but virtually (lol) non-existent in simracing.

Another problem is that HSO will always be a "one server" league. Meaning that for every series or event there will only be one server running it. For every 1979 F1 race for instance, there will never be a "Division 1" server with the fastest drivers, a "Division 2" server with slower drivers, and so on. Simply because it is not realistic - there was only one unique edition of the same event, not a F1 race for "fast GP drivers" and another for "not so fast GP drivers".

That's one of the tings that makes HSO harder to run than the vast majority of simracing leagues : the art is to attract just enough people that your server is full, but not too much that too many drivers are left without a drive. Would be easy enough to attract more people if we did fantasy events, but that will never happen.

The only real life equivalent that could work at HSO is the FIA Graded Drivers system. It was established every year by the FIA, and was later split in two with one list for Grand Prix drivers and another for Endurance. It went through some modifications over time, but typically the rules to make the GP one would look something like that :

Quote :

- World Champion drivers of the five previous years.

- Drivers who, in one and the same year, have been classified at least twice among the first six in a race of the World Championship for Drivers, while taking into account the Championships of the two previous years.

- The winner of the Indianapolis 500 Miles of the previous year.

- The winner of the Can-Am series of the previous year.

- The winner of the European Championship for Formula 2 Drivers of the previous year on the condition, however, that he has won at least three first places in the Class B drivers' classification (i.e. "non graded") of an event qualifying for the said championship.

- Drivers who, in the same year, won at the same time one classification among the first six in an event counting for the World Championship for Drivers, and one classification among the first three in the general results of an event counting for the Makes' Championship. Only the championships of the two previous years shall be taken into consideration.

That could be used based on HSO results only, but the weak point of that is obviously regarding new drivers to the league, who would be considered rookies by default whatever their level.

In real life the drivers part of the FIA Graded Drivers list were banned from racing in lower categories such as F3, while only a limited number of them were allowed to appear in a F2 event but could not score points towards the European championship. So it would be something we would use to prevent fastest drivers from competing in some events, which is kinda counter productive regarding attendance.

One thing that could work better would be something like the GPLRank. But what worked 20 years ago with GPL isn't applicable in today's simracing world - too many sims, too many mods, too many tracks, and especially all too easily modifiable (which makes WRs irrelevant). All attempts at rFRank and such didn't pick up. We used to have a HSO Rank in the early days, based on two or three of our most popular rFactor mods, but except for those who enjoy hotlapping there was little use for it. Not to mention that if you have it to rank drivers and restrict some from driving some cars or events people are going to sandbag their rank for sure.

Overall we think the vast majority of our events provide enough rewards for everybody, whatever their level. Many races have displacement classes dividing the field and thus multiplying chances of points and honors. Our races tend to be on the long side, so slower drivers can make up their speed deficit with reliability and consistency. And anyway it's more rewarding to finish 8th in the unique edition of a 90-minute 1979 F1 race with a Merzario, than win a Division 3 race of the same event with a Williams. Also, unlike in real life, we tend to weight the field, with fastest drivers barred from driving the fastest cars.