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 Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]

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+41
Fabrice Bouchasson
Trevor Greene
Jean-Marie Placais
Gérard Ryon
Rolf Just
Ghovand Keanie
Alberto Ibañez
Frank Labédan
Paul Nadeau
Jon Hicken
Oscar Hardwick
Jason White
Samuel Muscat
Ludovic Tagli
Jon Hawkins
Giuseppe Scaccia
Gianluca Desposito
Yves Plaçais
Vincent Beretta
Ruben Freitas
Mike Becnel
Joel Sixou
Philippe Bousquet
Dave Miller
Patrick Marucco
Carl Larrad
Matthias Traber
Yannick Lampure
Tiago Malafaya
Victor Alcocer
Greg Hunt
David Jundt
Alessio Campigotto
Antoine de Mautor
Lorenzo Arisi
Richard Coxon
Martin Audran
finally gone :)
Abat Hernaez
Ben Paulet
Guillaume Siebert
45 posters
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AuthorMessage
Giuseppe Scaccia
Experienced Driver
Giuseppe Scaccia


Number of posts : 236
Age : 41
Location : Italy
Registration date : 2012-09-30

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 0:15

Jason White wrote:
Apologies to Franck Labedan; he had me cleanly passed into turn 1 on lap 2, but then I was distracted by a car emerging from the pit lane Mad Missed my shut off point and punted Franck into the barrier Embarassed was relieved to see that he was able to continue. Slowed to let him by and thought I had, but it turned out to be someone else. He eventually got by me to finish one place ahead, which I was happy to give up :D I'll be more careful next time...


did you hit me on the last lap when i was exiting pits or was it an accident?

I've seen replay and i thought it was not an accident

i haven't finished race for this Neutral


Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Grab000yv

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Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 496
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Giuseppe Scaccia
Experienced Driver
Giuseppe Scaccia


Number of posts : 236
Age : 41
Location : Italy
Registration date : 2012-09-30

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 0:51

Gianluca Desposito wrote:
it was really a satisfaction lead 18 laps, but my stupid mistake have destroy any good moment . :bangry:
Great Mod. :top:
Thanks Frank for setting!!. :frank:

anche se eravamo nelle retrovie...bella battaglia :clap:

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Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 496
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Jason White
Racing Legend
Jason White


Number of posts : 14725
Age : 45
Location : Ferndale, MI USA
Registration date : 2011-12-25

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 0:55

Giuseppe Scaccia wrote:


did you hit me on the last lap when i was exiting pits or was it an accident?

I've seen replay and i thought it was not an accident

i haven't finished race for this Neutral


Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Grab000yv

Shoot. I thought I missed you. Very sorry about that. Clearly, I misjudged the rate of closure Embarassed Still getting used to these cars.

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Giuseppe Scaccia
Experienced Driver
Giuseppe Scaccia


Number of posts : 236
Age : 41
Location : Italy
Registration date : 2012-09-30

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 1:01

This is what happened with Miller...it's true that there were many lags ok...but the direction of your car was meaning that you braked too late causing accident without returning position.

I said right?

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Grab001ae

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Grab002pj

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Grab003k

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Giuseppe Scaccia
Experienced Driver
Giuseppe Scaccia


Number of posts : 236
Age : 41
Location : Italy
Registration date : 2012-09-30

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 1:04

Jason White wrote:
Giuseppe Scaccia wrote:


did you hit me on the last lap when i was exiting pits or was it an accident?

I've seen replay and i thought it was not an accident

i haven't finished race for this Neutral


Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Grab000yv

Shoot. I thought I missed you. Very sorry about that. Clearly, I misjudged the rate of closure Embarassed Still getting used to these cars.

ok...no problem

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Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 496
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Jon Hicken
Club Driver
Jon Hicken


Number of posts : 129
Age : 31
Location : Leeds, UK
Registration date : 2012-10-29

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 2:39

I also want to take a moment to apologise to anyone who was driving in anger behind me...

After watching the replay it appears my brakes were flickering on quite a lot, even down the straights. At one point My brakes were on the entire straight to 130R.

I wasn't brake testing or trying to intimidate you, my pedals are on their way out. I had to adjust the sensitivity on my throttle pedal recently as it was spiking alot. Looks like I'll have to tune down the sensitivity of the brakes aswell, because apparently I spent half my race on them! It's a surprise my brakes lasted the race! cheers

Again, sorry Gui and JM - I wasn't brake testing you if you think that, I swear! I guess it shows I was at least driving fast - staying up there and fighting with you guys with my brakes on the whole time!!

_________________
"It never gets easier, you only go faster" - Greg Lemond

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Dave Miller
Experienced Driver
Dave Miller


Number of posts : 301
Location : England
Registration date : 2012-07-10

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 2:58

I'm pretty sure you lagged there, I recall the contact was after I was round the first part of the chicane, and I had braked and turned very early to avoid running into you as I recall being well alongside when turning in. what I saw was you turn across my nose while I was leaving plenty of room on the inside

Also if you look at the apparent position of my car in the first picture i think it would be quite difficult for it to be where it is in the second and third and still under control.
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Jon Hicken
Club Driver
Jon Hicken


Number of posts : 129
Age : 31
Location : Leeds, UK
Registration date : 2012-10-29

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 4:18

Have to agree with David.

One car inside another? That's lag. David was in the right place throughout the chicane. Giuseppe, in the second picture down, you're wide and on the left. That's not the right line so it would suggest you turned across David's nose. I saw the replay and you did cut across him, but only ever so slightly. It appears laggy contact threw you onto the grass, where you spun in front of David's nose trying to rejoin the track.

Sorry to get involved where it's not my place, but I'll quote David Coulthard on this - "You can't just turn across the apex and expect a car to disappear." David pretty much had the position by the time you guys ended up at the apex. The just wasn't enough room for two cars through there, and it was too tight by the smallest of margins. But it was enough.

I'd say "You could have used the run off" but I'm kind of glad you didn't. I only noticed in the replay that I came barrelling through after missing my braking point and had to cut the whole chicane! Two cars over there would not have been nice! I thought I had only lapped David by doing that...

Also Jason - what happened there?! It looked so deliberate on the replay... after looking inside the cockpit however, you were turning slightly right the whole straight. Not sure if that was lag on the replay, or were you battling with damage to keep the car in a straight line? It appears you were, and drifted to the right as poor Giuseppe was coming out of the pits.

Bad luck in both incidents, really. That's racing though!

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"It never gets easier, you only go faster" - Greg Lemond

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 506
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Greg Hunt
Racing Legend
Greg Hunt


Number of posts : 4322
Age : 38
Location : HOSSEGOR
Registration date : 2010-03-25

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 7:25

Yves Plaçais wrote:
Greg Goissen wrote:
tres bon départ je me retrouve 5 ou 6 , a la fin du 1 er tour

Ce n'aurait peut-être pas été le cas si tu avais respecté les consignes en ne doublant pas avant la ligne de départ ! :papy:

tu as tout fait raison Yves ,j avais lu le reglement ( pour une fois :hihi: ) , maintenant sur mes 2 tours de qualifs le chrono se déclenché au niveau du fond de la grille de départ et il se terminé au meme endroit , donc au moment du départ des que on a recu le green flag ,j ai accéléré et n ai doublé qu apres le passage de cette ligne la ( déclenchement du chrono en qualif ) . donc apparrement Je me suis trompé de ligne ( entre celle qui déclenche le chrono et celle qui est placée au niveau du poleman ) Embarassed Embarassed

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Yves Plaçais
Racing Legend
Yves Plaçais


Number of posts : 1981
Age : 61
Location : Angers, France.
Registration date : 2008-12-18

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 9:24

Effectivement, Greg, il pouvait y avoir une petite incertitude sur l'emplacement de la ligne, car à Suzuka, la ligne de départ (celle où sont fixés les feux) semble situer bien après la ligne de chrono.
Pas grave en soi, sauf que l'on se retrouve, non pas avec les voitures plus ou moins en ligne arrivant toujours plus ou moins à la même vitesse au premier freinage, mais plutôt avec des voitures avec de grosses différences de vitesse.
Dans ces circonstances, le départ lancé, justement effectué pour gagner en sécurité, devient plus dangereux que le départ arrêté.

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Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 58
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Giuseppe Scaccia
Experienced Driver
Giuseppe Scaccia


Number of posts : 236
Age : 41
Location : Italy
Registration date : 2012-09-30

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 10:00

Dave Miller wrote:
I'm pretty sure you lagged there, I recall the contact was after I was round the first part of the chicane, and I had braked and turned very early to avoid running into you as I recall being well alongside when turning in. what I saw was you turn across my nose while I was leaving plenty of room on the inside

Also if you look at the apparent position of my car in the first picture i think it would be quite difficult for it to be where it is in the second and third and still under control.

Dave and Jon..i've already talked about lags..ok...there were ok...you and Coulthard can say everything you want but i lost control and positions AFTER the contact when i was running on the correct racing line and when Dave was inserting in the inside from behind.I didn't spinned and damaged car alone!Replay clearly shows this!
I know that happens in racing...I don't want to debate but if i was in Dave's a place i would have returned to the position and apologized to him as i always did in every event.

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Jean-Marie Placais
Club Driver
Jean-Marie Placais


Number of posts : 195
Age : 40
Location : France
Registration date : 2012-06-23

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 10:15

Yves Plaçais wrote:
Effectivement, Greg, il pouvait y avoir une petite incertitude sur l'emplacement de la ligne, car à Suzuka, la ligne de départ (celle où sont fixés les feux) semble situer bien après la ligne de chrono.
Pas grave en soi, sauf que l'on se retrouve, non pas avec les voitures plus ou moins en ligne arrivant toujours plus ou moins à la même vitesse au premier freinage, mais plutôt avec des voitures avec de grosses différences de vitesse.
Dans ces circonstances, le départ lancé, justement effectué pour gagner en sécurité, devient plus dangereux que le départ arrêté.

Effectivement j'ai été surpris par le départ, n'osant pas accélérer à fond avant la ligne des feux. Et ce fut vraiment chaud dans les premiers virages. A mon avis en départ arrêté ça aurait été plus calme. Enfn je suis pas tres objectif, j'ai jamais aimé les départ lancés (Sauf aux 24H du mans).

Du coup ma course hier fut plutot sans faute. La sauber ne semble pas être la plus rapide et vraiment pas facile à controler. mais en course elle a une certaine constance.
En tout cas superbe course sur un superbe MOD.

Derniere petite interrogation, ça aurait été top que la mazda soit intégrée au MOD!! (peut etre que le mod de Vadim n'a rien à voir avec celui utilisé ici). http://historicsimracing.123.st/t1827-wip-group-c-mod

A plus!

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Guillaume Siebert
League Owner
Guillaume Siebert


Number of posts : 13819
Age : 36
Location : Paris, France
Registration date : 2008-09-08

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 10:17

La Mazda 787B n'a surtout pas courru en 1987. Wink
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Jean-Marie Placais
Club Driver
Jean-Marie Placais


Number of posts : 195
Age : 40
Location : France
Registration date : 2012-06-23

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 10:24

Ah ok. On est sur l'année 87. j'avais pas tout suivi lol!

Mais les voitures utilisées sont donc bien celles de Vadim? En tout cas si c'est le cas, le mod avec toutes les voitures risque d'être une tuerie!

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Guillaume Siebert
League Owner
Guillaume Siebert


Number of posts : 13819
Age : 36
Location : Paris, France
Registration date : 2008-09-08

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 10:29

Jean-Marie Placais wrote:
Ah ok. On est sur l'année 87. j'avais pas tout suivi lol!
Le mod s'appelle tout de même "Group C 1987". :D

Toutes les voitures Group C sur rFactor proviennent de la conversion des modèles 3D d'un mod pour le jeu F1 Challenge. Celles de notre mod tout comme celles du mod de Vadim. La différence c'est que nous on essaye de faire des mods réalistes alors que le mod de Vadim (mais il en existe d'autres) n'est qu'une collection de voitures n'ayant souvent jamais roulé ensemble.


Last edited by Guillaume Siebert on Thu 20 Dec 2012 - 10:40; edited 1 time in total
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Jean-Marie Placais
Club Driver
Jean-Marie Placais


Number of posts : 195
Age : 40
Location : France
Registration date : 2012-06-23

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PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 10:40

OK. Merci de ton éclaircissement Guillaume.

Oui la collection de voitures c est bien beau mais si c est pas réaliste, (niveau son notamment!) la déception est de suite présente.

D ailleurs en parlant de choix de voiture, pour le champ. les pilotes vont ils être répartis en 2 groupes? ( 1 groupe Sauber, Jaguar, Porsche usine; et un groupe Porsche privé) ou chacun fait son choix et tu ajustes en fonction après? (comme le laisse entendre le règlement).

Je suis étonné également car au vu des chronos, la jag' semblait largement au dessus, or hier soir après avoir testé, finalement la Porsche est vraiment pas mal non plus. Mes chronos sont au final assez proches.

Paul Ricard 75 :

Porsche : 1'37"338
Jaguar : 1'37"476
Sauber : 1'37"289

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Guillaume Siebert
League Owner
Guillaume Siebert


Number of posts : 13819
Age : 36
Location : Paris, France
Registration date : 2008-09-08

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 10:45

Les différences entre les voitures vont varier suivant les circuits aussi. Smile A Suzuka l'aero joue beaucoup, donc Jag et Sauber avaient un petit avantage sur les Porsche. Mais oui la Jag n'est pas 2s plus rapide que le reste en tout cas, et la Porsche usine est normalement très rapide aussi. Wink

Il n'y aura pas 2 groupes, juste certains pilotes (qui se reconnaitront :D) qui devront rester sur Porsche privée ou Lancia. D'ailleurs les réservations sont ouvertes hein :aie:
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Frank Labédan
Racing Legend
Frank Labédan


Number of posts : 1043
Age : 55
Location : france - Landes
Registration date : 2008-10-28

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 13:07

Jason White wrote:
Apologies to Franck Labedan; he had me cleanly passed into turn 1 on lap 2, but then I was distracted by a car emerging from the pit lane Mad Missed my shut off point and punted Franck into the barrier Embarassed was relieved to see that he was able to continue. Slowed to let him by and thought I had, but it turned out to be someone else. He eventually got by me to finish one place ahead, which I was happy to give up :D I'll be more careful next time...

No problem Jason :hello:

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Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 17
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Jon Hicken
Club Driver
Jon Hicken


Number of posts : 129
Age : 31
Location : Leeds, UK
Registration date : 2012-10-29

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 15:19

Giuseppe Scaccia wrote:
Dave Miller wrote:
I'm pretty sure you lagged there, I recall the contact was after I was round the first part of the chicane, and I had braked and turned very early to avoid running into you as I recall being well alongside when turning in. what I saw was you turn across my nose while I was leaving plenty of room on the inside

Also if you look at the apparent position of my car in the first picture i think it would be quite difficult for it to be where it is in the second and third and still under control.

Dave and Jon..i've already talked about lags..ok...there were ok...you and Coulthard can say everything you want but i lost control and positions AFTER the contact when i was running on the correct racing line and when Dave was inserting in the inside from behind.I didn't spinned and damaged car alone!Replay clearly shows this!
I know that happens in racing...I don't want to debate but if i was in Dave's a place i would have returned to the position and apologized to him as i always did in every event.

i'm sorry but you cant say that. You were on the correct line yes - to begin with. David came up the inside, and had the position by the apex. This forced you to take a wider entry, off the line, slowing you down and giving David more space. You then turned slighly too late and hit his nose as it was close between you two, putting you on the grass causing a spin. You only had the racing line at the moment you started braking. David came by and it was two abreast from there. David had that position and you had the chance to yeild. David was ok in not giving back the position in my view.

If you dont want to debate it why are you here saying he should have gave back the position, and go through the effort of posting screenshots? That seems a little strange.

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"It never gets easier, you only go faster" - Greg Lemond

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Frank Verplanken
League Owner
Frank Verplanken


Number of posts : 12946
Age : 47
Location : Nice, France
Registration date : 2008-09-08

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PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 15:42

Can we please stop with this so called incident ? If you are looking for a league where you can argue about the least possible incident for posts and posts and posts I'm sure there are plenty of those out there... HSO just isn't one of such leagues. If the admins did not sanction an incident then there is little point in discussing it at all in the race topic. Those involved in the incident are invited to settle this as gentlemen and via PM, those who were not are invited to mind their own racing. Thank you :hello:

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Giuseppe Scaccia
Experienced Driver
Giuseppe Scaccia


Number of posts : 236
Age : 41
Location : Italy
Registration date : 2012-09-30

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 16:48

Surely agree...i posted the screenshot mainly for showing how many problems with lags i had(never had like this before)that probably also caused accident with Dave...probably i didn't explained well because english is not my language and certainly i made many errors.
After considerating all i said that in racing these things happens and that i don't want make a argu o debate like you(and you jon are not the interested person.)I only said what I would have did...i didn't pretended apologize.I would have did this.Stop.
I exposed things friendly as always...sorry if we didn't understood.Really.

Now i really hope that i explained well and that you all understood me.


So,yesterday was i the only driver with all this problems of lag?

I never had this....could be mod or track?

Let me know if i have to modify something in my settings of graphic?

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Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 496


Last edited by Giuseppe Scaccia on Thu 20 Dec 2012 - 16:57; edited 1 time in total
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Neal Johnson
Rookie
Neal Johnson


Number of posts : 10
Age : 58
Location : Barcelona, Spain
Registration date : 2012-12-18

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 16:54

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Suzuka12

A race start full of group C cars is a beautiful thing!!

:champ:
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Jason White
Racing Legend
Jason White


Number of posts : 14725
Age : 45
Location : Ferndale, MI USA
Registration date : 2011-12-25

Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 17:00

Look at all the Silk Cut Jags! LOL

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Paul Nadeau
Club Driver
Paul Nadeau


Number of posts : 194
Age : 68
Location : Southern California USA
Registration date : 2009-08-14

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PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 17:11

I had a big lag going into T1 at the start. affraid I hope I didn't hit anybody. Apologies if I did. Only a few small lags during the race.

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Jon Hicken
Club Driver
Jon Hicken


Number of posts : 129
Age : 31
Location : Leeds, UK
Registration date : 2012-10-29

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PostSubject: Re: Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th]   Test race @ Suzuka [Dec. 19th] - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu 20 Dec 2012 - 17:19

I'll be saving that picture. Awesome screenshot Neal!

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"It never gets easier, you only go faster" - Greg Lemond

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