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 Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500

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Jason Fitch
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Jason White
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PostSubject: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeSun 18 Aug 2019 - 20:53

I think Indycar needs to consider suspending Sato. His lack of spatial awareness is so obvious here. So lucky everyone was okay this time.


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David Sabre
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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeSun 18 Aug 2019 - 20:57

The first lap of a 500 mile race. Evil or Very Mad Rolling Eyes
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Jason White
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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeSun 18 Aug 2019 - 20:59

David Sabre wrote:
The first lap of a 500 mile race. Evil or Very Mad Rolling Eyes

Sato said in an interview afterwards that he thought he was clear.
Um, no. You were not. Not even close. Evil or Very Mad

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Jason White
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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeMon 19 Aug 2019 - 1:31

Sato has taken to Twitter, trying to shift some of the blame for the accident by suggesting that Rossi was squeezed by Hunter-Reay, causing Rossi to move up the track.  Even assuming that's true, Sato still clearly cut down on both of them.  As you might expect, he is getting some negative reaction to his version of events...

https://twitter.com/TakumaSatoRacer/status/1163205134542942208

EDIT: Now he's saying he drove straight and has posted video to back up this claim -- conveniently forgetting that his original reaction was to say he thought he was clear. Someone should tell him when you are in a hole, stop digging. Rolling Eyes

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Richard Coxon
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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeMon 19 Aug 2019 - 19:08

Regardless of who is at fault (Thankfully everyone escaped unscathed) but Pocono/Indycar officials really need to look at themselves if they think this is acceptable catch fencing or even acceptable repairs for 230mph Racing.

Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Ff02b010

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Last edited by Richard Coxon on Mon 19 Aug 2019 - 19:40; edited 1 time in total
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Jason White
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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeMon 19 Aug 2019 - 19:29

Yeah, that is pretty lame.

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David Sabre
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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeTue 20 Aug 2019 - 13:36

Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 KLLDpgl5Gd1mbW3BwMIfpEQ_JkeyomSlr-k-WBhfjzo
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Richard Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeTue 20 Aug 2019 - 13:57

I don't think its the track layout to blame. Sure, the safety features can be improved, but the layout itself doesn't make cars crash. Justin died with debris hitting his head, and both accidents last year and this year were due to driver error, or a too bunched start.

People can look to escape goats all they want, but driver mentality is a lot to blame for most accidents in indycar in recent years.

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Jason White
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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeTue 20 Aug 2019 - 14:18

Richard Wilks wrote:
I don't think its the track layout to blame. Sure, the safety features can be improved, but the layout itself doesn't make cars crash. Justin died with debris hitting his head, and both accidents last year and this year were due to driver error, or a too bunched start.

People can look to escape goats all they want, but driver mentality is a lot to blame for most accidents in indycar in recent years.

Exactly right.  It's piss poor driving that is to blame, not the track.  But that won't matter, the Indycar PR suits will wash their hands of the place for 2020 because the don't want the headache. 
Thanks to Takuma and his No Attack No Chance horsesh*t.

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Jonatan Acerclinth
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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeTue 20 Aug 2019 - 14:55

I've watched the onboard (along with others that mentioned this on FB) and while it was a bit too agressive to go to the outside to make it 3 wide into T2, Takuma is not fully to blame for the crash.

If you watch it from Rossi's onboard, you can see that he moves right of the seem on the track because RHR is on his inside pushing him up while Sato is heading straight.
Once they get closer to the turn, they are all close and it's then that Takuma decides he has to start turning to make it through 2 which causes the contact.

All in all, racing incident and not fully any one drivers fault. Just my 2 cents.

I'm very happy to read that all the drivers got away without any major injuries.

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2019 | 1996 British Touring Car Championship :second: | Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 St_btcc96_03
2019 | 1995 Super Tourenwagen Cup  :first: | Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 St_stw95_22

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Jason White
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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeTue 20 Aug 2019 - 15:14

Jonatan Acerclinth wrote:
All in all, racing incident and not fully any one drivers fault. Just my 2 cents.

Respectfully, I don't believe forcing a 3 wide situation approaching the Tunnel Turn can be filed away as a racing incident.  
2 wide into the Tunnel Turn is sketchy; 3 wide is impossible.  If Takuma hadn't taken it to that level, the accident wouldn't have happened, so it's on him, IMO. Regardless of whether he turned in or not, he was thinking with the wrong head, per usual, and in the worst possible place at the worst possible time.  RHR and Rossi can't be blamed for that.

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Jonatan Acerclinth
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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeTue 20 Aug 2019 - 16:30

Jason White wrote:
Jonatan Acerclinth wrote:
All in all, racing incident and not fully any one drivers fault. Just my 2 cents.

Respectfully, I don't believe forcing a 3 wide situation approaching the Tunnel Turn can be filed away as a racing incident.  
2 wide into the Tunnel Turn is sketchy; 3 wide is impossible.  If Takuma hadn't taken it to that level, the accident wouldn't have happened, so it's on him, IMO. Regardless of whether he turned in or not, he was thinking with the wrong head, per usual, and in the worst possible place at the worst possible time.  RHR and Rossi can't be blamed for that.

That's a fair call, I'm just putting it out there as it feels like all the blame is put on Sato which I feel is a tad harsh considering he was left less and less room as the situation developed but it was indeed a bit agressive to go there in the first place.

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Steve Parker
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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeTue 20 Aug 2019 - 18:09

Sato turned in without looking who was on the inside of him to stay in Dixons draft who also moved left ,Rossi was the meat in the sandwich, RHR held his line,i think Sato was 100% to blame study

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Jason White
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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeWed 21 Aug 2019 - 3:17

Rahal Letterman Lanigan issued a statement defending Sato. Not that I'm surprised; it's what their PR people are paid to do. Spoiler alert: they call it a "racing incident" Rolling Eyes

https://rahal.com/2019/08/20/statement-rahal-letterman-lanigan-racing-opening-lap-crash-pocono-raceway-august-18-2019/

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Jason Fitch
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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeWed 21 Aug 2019 - 4:04

Watch the Onboard from Sato, he NEVER turned. RHR squeezed his own TEAM MATE up into Sato.

Sato didn't FORCE anything. Rossi had a shit start, RHR got up alongside him, they both stalled out, Rossi, stayed in the middle of the track. Sato saw an opening that was 4 miles wide, and he had the run to make it, this is evidenced by the fact that Rossi hit him in the Left Rear.

Sato's onboard is telling, RHR tried to force an issue, Rossi tried to Force it back and ended up being caught between RHR and Sato. Had Sato NOT been there this accident was still GOING TO HAPPEN. RHR was headed for a collision with Rossi at the entrance to the Tunnel turn.

If anyone is to be punished, perhaps it's the guy who has initiated or out right caused the 2 most serious accidents in the last 2 years AT THE SAME TRACK.

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Richard Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeWed 21 Aug 2019 - 10:40

I agree Fitch, RHR is trying to again pass unnoticed, but he was clearly moving up, and he should know better after last year.

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Jason Fitch
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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeFri 23 Aug 2019 - 0:40

Rodney Sandstorm, aka Jordan Taylor's alter ego, just posted the greatest explanation of this crash in like....ever. Totally closes the case, gonna try and find it to post here, right now it's on twitter.

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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeFri 23 Aug 2019 - 12:29

Jason White wrote:
I think Indycar needs to consider suspending Sato. His lack of spatial awareness is so obvious here. So lucky everyone was okay this time.



If you go at 3:03, the video shows Rosenqvist's onboard cam: Sato clearly steers to the left sharply, going for a gap that isn't there. Hunter Reay for sure knew that Sato was there because he was paired with him when trying to pass just a few seconds earlier.

If I were to judge, I'd give Sato a suspension because of his dangerous driving style (something he never let go of since F1, apparently), and give RHR a warning for trying a pass knowing that he could not make it due to lack of speed, setting up the whole trap. A veteran like him should know when it's worth the risk and when it's not.
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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeFri 23 Aug 2019 - 13:04




It's sad that EVERYONE is trying to act like this footage doesn't exist. I'm pretty sure this is why IndyCar hasn't done anything about this crash. They've seen this and you can clearly see he doesn't move until after he's hooked by Rossi.

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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeFri 23 Aug 2019 - 13:49

Jason Fitch wrote:



It's sad that EVERYONE is trying to act like this footage doesn't exist. I'm pretty sure this is why IndyCar hasn't done anything about this crash. They've seen this and you can clearly see he doesn't move until after he's hooked by Rossi.

Minute 1:24 of the 1st post. The hook happens AFTER the steering.
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Richard Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeFri 23 Aug 2019 - 14:02

Onboard Rossi, if you look at that black line on the road surface, and his position in relation to it, and also his steering wheel, you see how much he moved to the right in a short time. Sato was moving straight all along, while Rossi was moving up and up, being pushed there by RHR. When the touch happens, Sato was already almost clear of Rossi, who admitedly had nowhere to go, and was squeezed by both of them. But Sato didnt move down, its RHR and Rossi that moved up.

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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeFri 23 Aug 2019 - 15:17

Richard Wilks wrote:
Onboard Rossi, if you look at that black line on the road surface, and his position in relation to it, and also his steering wheel, you see how much he moved to the right in a short time. Sato was moving straight all along, while Rossi was moving up and up, being pushed there by RHR. When the touch happens, Sato was already almost clear of Rossi, who admitedly had nowhere to go, and was squeezed by both of them. But Sato didnt move down, its RHR and Rossi that moved up.

Mh... seems the classic situation where it depends on the camera car being used.

Say, is there any eagle-eye view of the mess available? Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeFri 23 Aug 2019 - 15:28

Everyone is analyzing the onboard footage like its the Zapruder film.  Who turned when?  Who was moving up/down?
I'll concede that these facts are debatable and less clear than they initially seemed.  Having said that, ask yourself this: "was Sato's forcing a 3 wide situation on the outside entering the tunnel turn even a good idea?"  Yes or no.  For me, the answer is no, and that's why I still largely blame him for the accident after all the video evidence and debate.

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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeFri 23 Aug 2019 - 23:09

Jason White wrote:
Everyone is analyzing the onboard footage like its the Zapruder film.  Who turned when?  Who was moving up/down?
I'll concede that these facts are debatable and less clear than they initially seemed.  Having said that, ask yourself this: "was Sato's forcing a 3 wide situation on the outside entering the tunnel turn even a good idea?"  Yes or no.  For me, the answer is no, and that's why I still largely blame him for the accident after all the video evidence and debate.

Well, Sato's decision to go to the outside in a 3-wide in that situation was essentially a dumb move. We're talking Grosjean-slipping-at-Silverstone-in-the-pits level of dumbness.
He was in a 2-wide with Hunter-Reay, which is already a risk on its own from what I can see from past footage, then sees Rossi and decides to go high, while he could clearly see even before the pass that the high route basically left him no escape route -other than a violent braking- because of a car blocking it.

What he should've done, technically-wise, was just... wait it out. It's the first lap, who cares if you lose a position now. Just leave it be for now and take it back later when the opportunity arises.
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PostSubject: Re: Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500   Big accident on lap 1 of the Pocono 500 Icon_minitimeSat 24 Aug 2019 - 6:55

He never FORCED a 3 wide issue, Rossi left half the damn track width to his right. Further, there was no car blocking Sato, he was being pulled along by Dixon. Lastly, the only potential issue there was gonna be, was RHR and Rossi colliding, because Sato was nearly clear of them both before Rossi hooked him in the Left Rear.

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