Mod F1 1982 for rFactor

Pascal Mikula wrote:

PS: Can anyone confirm whether Boesel had the "RACING" livery on during any GP? I could only find a picture of Jochen Mass' RM11 from the British Grand Prix using the "RACING" livery instead of "ROTHMANS" while a photo I found of Boesel's RM10 from the same venue seemed to have the normal Rothmans livery.
David Sabre, you maybe, since you said the British GP 1982 was the first one you attended? 

The Boesel photo is from qualifiying as he didn't qualify for the race. Cigarette advertising was banned from the races therefore they most likely changed Mass's to say RACING on race day but they could use ROTHMANS in practice and qualifying.

Pascal Mikula wrote:

A photo I found of Raul Boesel driving the March 821-RM07 with this weird livery at Kyalami. 

Mass also used that livery at Kyalami.
https://www.motorsportimages.com/photo/1012912412-1982-south-african-grand-prix/1012912412/

Both March 821 were using Rothmans livery for race 2 Brazil.

Ahhh...Good to know. Silly me, lol. Then again, I didn't know whether they were allowed to have tobacco advertising on in practice/quali sessions. Will fix that now.

About the livery from Kyalami, thank you very much as well for letting me know. I'm not as far as working on Jochen's car yet, as I first looked at Emilio de Villota since his RM07 actually has a different cockpit shape, dashboard, etc. but a "windshield" thing, which the others don't have. But I'll take all that into consideration.

For real, though. Is there a way to specify in the upgrades file that with a certain upgrade, a certain livery has to be applied? I can barely remember there having been a mod where that was the case, but I also remember from when I built the AMS F1 1975 Sound Pack, that an upgrade file can't change values in vehicle files....

Pascal Mikula wrote:

For real, though. Is there a way to specify in the upgrades file that with a certain upgrade, a certain livery has to be applied?

We did that with the 1978 F1 rFactor mod using the veh file. You need a separate veh file for every car for every race. It will be easier for you to look in the 1978 F1 mod than it is for me to explain how it works.

David Sabre wrote:

Pascal Mikula wrote:

For real, though. Is there a way to specify in the upgrades file that with a certain upgrade, a certain livery has to be applied?

We did that with the 1978 F1 rFactor mod using the veh file. You need a separate veh file for every car for every race. It will be easier for you to look in the 1978 F1 mod than it is for me to explain how it works.

Oh Christ...
That'd basically mean re-working everything, wouldn't it?
That's sort of what I didn't want to do, a million different veh files, as I don't feel like I'm that capable of just changing and rearranging the whole structure of the mod.
But I looked into doing that already since I took a look at the CART88 mod, for example, so I know what I'd need to do.

TrackConfigsBase.ini can be used to define certain car upgrades at a track but I don't know much about TrackConfigsBase.ini and I've never used it.

David Sabre wrote:

TrackConfigsBase.ini can be used to define certain car upgrades at a track but I don't know much about TrackConfigsBase.ini and I've never used it.

The important thing is that I want to assign certain paintjobs to certain upgrades.
Or maybe even that'll be messed up because I don't think Boesel only had /that/ paintjob on RM07 and /that/ paintjob on RM09, if you know what I mean.
I tried it with "TrackLivery" in the veh file, but that didn't work either, even though I had entered the TrackName correctly for Kyalami.

Guess I'll have to make it more simplistic and bet on the grips of anyone who might use the mod when I get to finish it up.
Then again..It'd be great if the AI was able to have the correct livery, too.

I mean, I saw that TrackLivery thing when I looked at the F1SR 1991 mod and saw the TrackLivery entries; and I can't remember the AI having wrong skins for tracks like Silverstone or Hockenheim.

TrackLivery="TRACK, PREFIX"

TRACK is the track name as defined in the event in the track GDB file.
PREFIX is the texture map (skin) name, assumed to be BMP unless specified, therefore if its a .dds file you need to include the .dds in the skin name. eg skinname.dds

David Sabre wrote:

TrackLivery="TRACK, PREFIX"

TRACK is the track name as defined in the event in the track GDB file.
PREFIX is the texture map (skin) name, assumed to be BMP unless specified, therefore if its a .dds file you need to include the .dds in the skin name. eg skinname.dds

TrackLivery="#03 San Marino, Skins\Misc\FBarba_18_JH2503.DDS" (from the F1SR 1991 mod)

therefore my entry for Boesel's March 821 for Kyalami should be:

TrackLivery="Round 01 - Grand Prix of South Africa, Skins\Misc\Boesel12.dds" and so on.
But for some reason, it doesn't work. If I load in an AI of the Boesel March, it has the RACING livery...

 

Oh my god you gotta be kidding me!

So all I really had to do was delete (or rather empty) the entry on "DefaultLivery"??

 

Why doesn't it work with a "DefaultLivery" entry, though?? The F1SR 1991 cars have all got "DefaultLivery" defined, but their TrackLivery entries work, too..or do they? I can't even really remember... 

But that'd mean..for all GP's where the car didn't have some special paintjob, i'll have to add *every single race* and write the very same livery in.. i'm too tired for this, so I'll work on that tomorrow.

Depends if you want a rFactor mod or an AMS mod too.
AMS requires a veh for every single skin, you can’t select a skin in AMS as you know. I’m not 100% sure if the track livery stuff will work in AMS.

Like David said, the easiest way is to have a veh for every round. More work, but better results, especially if you plan to convert to AMS. But if you’re staying with rFactor, carry on

BTW, I’m impressed, you’re learning at a good rate

I can't help on these tracklivery problems as I don't know anything about them.
Welcome to the wonderful world of modding.

Richard Coxon wrote:

Depends if you want a rFactor mod or an AMS mod too.
AMS requires a veh for every single skin, you can’t select a skin in AMS as you know. I’m not 100% sure if the track livery stuff will work in AMS.

Like David said, the easiest way is to have a veh for every round. More work, but better results, especially if you plan to convert to AMS. But if you’re staying with rFactor, carry on

BTW, I’m impressed, you’re learning at a good rate

I just want the mod to work in rFactor, at first. I can't even imagine porting it to AMS yet, because I'd rather go the safe way and thus make a million veh files if it guarantees that every livery and every car, maybe even every single chassis (1981 cars maybe for the start of the season?) is present. Maybe even the T-cars, but I'm looking too far ahead. For AMS I'd have to implement a whole lot of other things, too, like the turbocharging, tire dirt pickup, flat spots, etc. and unlike rFactor, I can't check for AMS vanilla files to understand how they work, since they're all encrypted somewhere. So that'd mean a whole lot of trial-and-error. And given how certain cars handle when you turn the boost up, I'm not too sure how that'd work since e.g. the Ferrari had up to 4.5 bar of boost in 1982. (Imagine if boost variations were able to be implemented.. I read that in the San Marino GP 1982, the reason why Gilles and Didier often overtook each other on corner exit was because one of them would get the whole 4 bar of boost while the other one didn't..)

Anyway, I'm not even close to thinking about making it available for AMS. At the moment, I only have four of the 30+ race cars imported, and only the Ferraris could be considered "release-ready", even though there's still this mirror problem. (Will post pictures later, in case it's not clear what I mean)

But thank you for the kind words, Richard. It's actually easier done than I expected at first, since changed veh files and even gen files can be re-loaded by the game in real-time when loading a race weekend, so that makes checking and testing a little easier. Also, you may know that I have a lot of mods in my main install, and thus can check through a lot of mods to see what I can try and implement to make it more practical.

David Sabre wrote:

I can't help on these tracklivery problems as I don't know anything about them.
Welcome to the wonderful world of modding.

It's no problem; I'll eventually find the cause of why it didn't work when I had "DefaultLivery" defined. As I said, the F1SR 1991 mod that we ran last year has both defined, and it still supposedly works. But I think not having a DefaultLivery defined would break the cars if they are loaded into a track that is not defined by "TrackLivery" - it shouldn't, since the skins can still be selected in the SKINS menu. Also, I can imagine the average user being smart enough to know that the skin called "Round 1 - South African Grand Prix" should go on the car if they want to drive at Kyalami   

Anyway, the biggest hurdle I may have is creating accurate hdv's for the cars that were added in the 0.95 build, as they all use the LE hdv - I can look up their weight, but things like centre of gravity and all the other stuff will be difficult.
But as Alberto suggested, I'd rather concentrate on getting the graphics right at first. That's really not that difficult, as it's mostly upgrade-file related and gen related (at least if we're talking about the T-cam). 
I may take a look at the camera files, though.. I have a feeling the T-cams are, in some cars, a little useless.. 

David Sabre wrote:

Both March 821 were using Rothmans livery for race 2 Brazil.

I was going to ask "Which one?" since in the skins folder, there are THREE different Rothmans liveries (not including the RACING livery). Images below.

  


But I found this image: eBay link to some photograph of Boesel



This image is claimed to be taken at the Brazilian Grand Prix, and this surprised me a lot since the Brazilian sponsors are all..missing. But, that'd actually explain when and why and where that one, I'll call it "Rothmans-only" livery was used! 


BTW, notice I'm still only working on Boesel's car. Looking through Keegan and Mass, I'm very relieved to know that they only have three different liveries compared to five in Boesel's car.

The first one, all 3 liveries are different.

First one has a Rothmans logo.
Second has a Rizla and Newsweek
Third has Rothmans and Newsweek.

And another image taken from the Brazilian GP.
So I suppose the Rothmans-only livery was also only used for practice?? 

Pascal Mikula wrote:

So I suppose the Rothmans-only livery was also only used for practice?? 

I could be the other way around, Newsweek and Rizla were the Kyalami sponsors and could have been removed for the Brazilian race.

David Sabre wrote:

Pascal Mikula wrote:

So I suppose the Rothmans-only livery was also only used for practice?? 

I could be the other way around, Newsweek and Rizla were the Kyalami sponsors and could have been removed for the Brazilian race.

Oh good merciful Jesus... I have a feeling this is never gonna end lol

Then again, there are Rizla + Newsweek + Rothmans liveries there, too. And I've seen that, at least at Long Beach, Boesel had a Rizla-Newsweek-Rothmans livery.

Screw it (I know that's a fatal thing to say when you're going for historical accuracy, but let me explain.)

I've done good research, and I've entered the following liveries as TrackLiveries for now; I mean, with cars that old it's almost impossible to really get 100% always accurate research, and with liveries changing from session to session, I think at some point I gotta draw the line.

Kyalami: Green Rizla+Newsweek
Rio: Rothmans
Long Beach: Rothmans + Rizla + Newsweek
Imola: Nothing (Boycott)
Zolder - Zandvoort: Rothmans + Newsweek
Brands Hatch, Paul Ricard, Hockenheim: RACING (As I assume that in 1982 tobacco advertising was also banned in France. I know it in case of the UK and Germany, supported by photo research)
Zeltweg, Dijon: Rothmans + Newsweek
Monza, Las Vegas: Rothmans

If you are going to finish the mod then its your decision on which liveries to use but try and be as accurate as you can.
I would concentrate on getting all of the cars in game and working before adjusting them for individual races.

very good work Pascal and damn i was also involved into this untill JC Case ( physics guy )from Varjanta and the whole crew of Varjanta went Awol and the site was gone

models are very good , believe they came from gp4, and "Jp Jarrier" made some awesome car models with engines init but he also disapeared, however they very fps demanding

according to liveries, try to go and find out the races itself , becasue like in 91 they hussle them in a weekend and add more stickers on them during the weekend or changed them by hasty sponsor deals etc
its headache work i tell you

also the 91 mod is build the old fashioned way and if we do it again , ( we don't ) we would do it like the 90srm mod or 92 structure so dig in that how its build

best of luck and have fun

François Remmen wrote:

very good work Pascal and damn i was also involved into this untill JC Case ( physics guy )from Varjanta and the whole crew of Varjanta went Awol and the site was gone

models are very good , believe they came from gp4,  and "Jp Jarrier" made some awesome car models with engines init but he also disapeared, however they very fps demanding

according to liveries, try to go and find out the races itself , becasue like in 91 they hussle them in a weekend and add more stickers on them during the weekend or changed them by hasty sponsor deals etc
its headache work i tell you

also the 91 mod is build the old fashioned way and if we do it again , ( we don't ) we would do it like the 90srm mod or 92 structure so dig in that how its build

best of luck and have fun

Thank you very much Francois.
I noticed the FPS demands of the cars, as they consist of dozens and dozens of sole gmt's put together. I assume it'd be better if some would be melted together while others stay separate for collision and damage aesthetics.

About the liveries, I think the big problem was so far only the March of Raul Boesel, as other March's and other cars have less liveries as far as I saw it.
However, I'd probably do best with importing them all, then working on them separately. Then working on the graphical (aka gen files) part of them, and then build the engine and gears for the cars that don't have their own.

I'm actually not too sure how to structure my own work yet, as there are not just the cars, but also the tracks scattered around everywhere. Caesars Palace is very well made, but the AI is very slow around the track. Monaco, which I've currently got from the GPC79 trackpack, has the AI always crash at the Harbor chicane, and Las Vegas, which is more a beta than a 1.0 version, is just badly made. So there's a whole lot fo shit I'd need to do before I can even think of giving it to someone to test and judge for themselves. Hence why I call it (at the moment) a development beta.

Guess I'll need to make some sort of organized schedule..or get some more people to help me work on it, since I'm doing it all alone at the moment, but who knows. I've been working on this for barely half a week, lol.