Which steering wheel do you use?

Hi guys,

I used a Logitech G25 for the last 11 years. I was very happy with it, I had literally no issues during all those years of very heavy use. However, I drove a Direct Drive wheel on a few occasions and I realized that my old G25 deserves to retire

DD was out of question due to money (the cheapest option is Accuforce V2 for 999$ plus shiping from USA), so I was looking for the next best thing. Gear drive wheels simply can't do the job properly, so a belt driven wheel was the only option. The question was which one. I was looking for the best and strongest wheels, which led me to two brands - Thrustmaster and Fanatec. Fanatec looks great, their base V2.5 is by far the strongest with 8Nm of torque (CSL base with 6Nm), but has two huge drawbacks - it's brutally overpriced and most importantly, it's reliability is absolutely horrible. I followed the Fanatec owners page on Facebook for one month and there are fatal failures reported pretty much every day. Both bases, add-on wheels too. Often after just a few months of use, or even brand new products malfunct. So Fanatec was a no-go.

That left me with only one option - Thrustmaster's flagship TS-PC Racer. With 6Nm of torque, very good reviews and reliability, this seemed to be a damn good wheel. So I bought it Yesterday I spend 6 hours in my cockpit and the first impressions are simply amazing! Build quality is great (I also bought a GT28 wheel add-on), it's more than strong enough and the feedback itself is simply amazing. While G25 didn't give much info about what the car does, this wheel is super fast and smooth. Now I know what they're talking about in video reviews I'm able to catch slides that would end up in a spin with G25. The feedback reacts and transfers the info to the wheel so quickly, that my inputs are rather proactive, than reactive. And it's strong. My forearms and even back hurt after those six hours. When I did a stint with CART88 in Phoenix, I had to re-position my left hand after some 20 laps, because I was losing strength in the arm. I guess Milwaukee and Nazareth will be quite exhausting I also drove a Lotus 98T in Adelaide. Or a McLaren MP4-8 in rFactor2. It was a survival. I love it! Will it make me faster? No, not over one lap. But I believe I will be more consistent over a longer stint.

I was wondering - which wheels do you use? Does anybody have a Direct Drive wheel? Is this community running high end equipment, mainstream wheels like Thrustmaster T300 or Logitech G25/27/29 or even low end wheels?

TSW 720º for me, ECCI 6000 for little Alberto.

No force feedback, but beautiful smoothness and precission. Will obviously not warn you of slides, but allows to catch them way better than any FF due to the small and smooth resistance against a quick countersteer. The best part though is for realiability and easyness of configuration from car to car, from mod to mod, from game to game, as the wheel obviously always feel the same. It also is not tiring over a long race and won't overheat and lose sensitivity or power. I know FF is nowadays miles better and more realistic, but for my own application, weaknesses and preferences, the TSW fills my requirements much better.

That said, regarding your wheel, I believe your weak point will be now the pedals. You should at least get some Fanatec CSL elite ones, many people say -and I believe it- that it's the single most important improvement you can have, even way above any steering wheel. And Fanatec pedals are way more reliable than their wheels.

First generation of the Thrustmaster T500RS, the great grandfather of your current wheel.

Had it for 6 or 7 years, can't really remember. Took me some time to get used to it, but now I'm very comfortable with it. The sensor of the shifter paddles have been wearing out and are getting a bit erratic over the last months. And there is a little wiggle in the steering column. But still behaves very well.

I use it with VPP Pro 3 Pedals and a SST Lightning H-shifter. Both the latter are out of production now, but still match anything newer IMO. I fear the day my SST would give in as I would find it near impossible to find a suitable replacement.

Everything is mounted on to a VPP-racing rack.

Timo

Just a basic g27 wheel and pedals, no brake load cell mod or anything.

I've been using a standard G25 for a long time too, but had been looking to upgrade to Fanatec. Seeing what you've written Petr, I think I'll reconsider that! I hadn't heard of the Thrustmaster TS-PC before, but seems like a good alternative!

However, I have to upgrade my pedals first. What pedal sets do people recommend?

Jacob Fredriksson wrote:

However, I have to upgrade my pedals first. What pedal sets do people recommend?

Depends on budget, how much are looking at?

@Alberto: Wow, respect. I can't imagine driving without feedback, let alone on your and Little Al's level

@Austin: While a better wheel doesn't necessarily make anybody faster, I think we can only pray that you'll keep your G27 for a looong time. Otherwise you'll lap us not once, but twice

@Jacob: seriously, don't buy a Fanatec. What I read in that FB group scared me away. You buy a base for 500 euro, it dies after 2 weeks, you send it for repair, it's gone for 4 weeks, then you get it back and it gets broken again... The McLaren GT3 wheel has faulty paddles (obviously a construction/quality issue), CSL Elite has issues with sensors, calibrating, often there are machanical issues inside both CSL and v2.5, etc. If I were you, I'd stay away from this brand.

One of the reviews that led me to buying the TS-PC is the one below. Plus this base is already two years old and well proven, thare are no notorious issues. The only thing that's hard to believe (from my point) is the shaft and "quick release" system made of plastic. I just don't get it. But otherwise the TS-PC is an awesome wheel (I hope I didn't jinx it now  )

Petr Hlavac wrote:

@Austin: While a better wheel doesn't necessarily make anybody faster, I think we can only pray that you'll keep your G27 for a looong time. Otherwise you'll lap us not once, but twice

No I don't think so hahaha. I was looking at the OSW wheels they are a bit pricey and ivwould rather buy REAL car parts lol. I think I might just upgrade my monitor for now as I'm playing on a single 49 in TV and I really don't like it.

Stock G25 and pedals for myself. Tried the G27 but I found the G25 to be more responsive and free for myself anyway. Have been looking at upgrading thou

Austin Johnson wrote:

No I don't think so hahaha. I was looking at the OSW wheels they are a bit pricey and ivwould rather buy REAL car parts lol. I think I might just upgrade my monitor for now as I'm playing on a single 49 in TV and I really don't like it.

If you're already in the DD price range, then the best solution might be the Accuforce for a thousand bucks.

https://simxperience.com/products/accessories/accuforcesteering/accuforcepro.aspx

Alberto Ibañez wrote:

Jacob Fredriksson wrote:

However, I have to upgrade my pedals first. What pedal sets do people recommend?

Depends on budget, how much are looking at?

Fanatec pedals go for 360 euros, so something less pricey than that.

Actually I was thinking of these, best budget pedals around 200 euros:

https://www.fanatec.com/eu-en/pedals/csl-elite-pedals-lc-eu.html

Metal construction, highly configurable, load cell ...

You can also buy cheaper without load cell at 89 euros, then later upgrade if you want for 139 euros more:

https://www.fanatec.com/eu-en/product/pc

Video review:

Great topic!
Reading it all..
Im at DFGT. Would love to go forward, but never considered it siriously becose of very high prices. You can buy a real car for that sums.. so.. when I get older

I was dreaming about Fanatec though, but now, Ill check this Thrusmaster.. What worries me is compatibility of wheels, bases, pedals, shifters... to many data for my head atm.. Ill start to study though.

My Setup
I use these pedals and cannot fault them solid as a rock.
http://www.thrustmaster.com/en_UK/products/t3pa-pro-add

I've heard that at least the Formula Carbon(or all of Fanatec's F1 steering wheels) is rather reliable? Am I wrong?

I don't even bother with the McLetsyoudown wheel, not a fan of that. I'd prefer unbranded and unlabelled, unlike those Logitech G29 and Thrustmaster wheels with console button logos on it...

Looks like Fanatec now tries to get into the DD business with their "podium" series, which seems to also include a new F1 wheel for both old belt-driven and soon DD bases.

With me, it's probably more of an issue of how to use it. Still using a Wheelstand Pro and might need a rig(SimLab or directly HE?) to use new wheel/pedals.

The rich Swiss I am(kinda), I've been looking past Fanatec's V3 Pedals and directly towards the HE pedals(the cheaper ones are now called Sprint).

Both have loadcells, but the latter doesn't even mention having to replace them at some point...

The more expensive ones and other manufacturers also have hydraulic brakes, but I am questioning the use of them. Not sure if it would be "better", but they are for sure very expensive and probably cause a harder leg workout than any other pedals(and as an endurance racer, this might be the death of my feet)

David Jundt wrote:

(and as an endurance racer, this might be the death of my feet)

I used to drive barefooted, but when I switched to the VPP pedals, that became impossible. The pressure needed and the metal of the pedals literately cut my feet.

So, now I always get a stock of Falke Slipper socks with padding:



Works perfect. Just a bit hot in summer... and smelly in summer Hence why I stock them

Timo

Raul Jereb wrote:

What worries me is compatibility of wheels, bases, pedals, shifters... to many data for my head atm.. Ill start to study though.

I decided to buy the Leo Bodnar adapters for Logitech pedals and shifter, as I'm happy with both (though the brake needed further modifications, just the GTeye spring simply wasn't enough). These adapters are stupidly expensive, I'm quite sure that it can be done for fraction of those 60 Euro, but I needed it fast. It's simple - both become simply a standalone device, all you need is a few USB ports and you're fine. The irony is, that I made those pedals work even without these adapters by simply having both, TS-PC and G25 plugged into my computer and using G25 for pedals and TS-PC for steering. And it works fine (it just looks stupid    ).

One thing that works wonderfully for driving not barefooted but neither with socks, is the usual martial arts (Tae-Kwon-Do f.e.) soft soled shoes. They are also well vented (drilled).

Is there a good suggestion for an add- on H/ sequential shifter for the TS-PC?

T J

I have been using a Thrustmaster T80 lately, and I'm quite happy with it.  The only problem is the large nut that accepts the clamping bolt underneath is only held in place by cheap ABS plastic housing.  If it's too tightly mounted to a table, the nut can break out of the plastic easily, and already has on a previous T80 I used :/

After my first proper races with TS-PC (BTCC at Brands) I can safely say, that it's money well spent. I guess it works on the same principle as a good pedal set. Unlike cheap equipment which is weak and you need to use "position memory", with a strong brake/feedback you use "muscle memory". It's simply easier. The wheel has just the right amount of power, it feels great, yet it won't rip your hands off. Also, I felt no degradation of feedback, it remained consistent throughout the whole evening. The only problem is that I'll have to hard mount it and reinforce my wooden cockpit, because it shakes quite a lot under the forces generated by the TS-PC. Otherwise I hope it won't break down or degrade with time, because as it is right now, it's all I could wish for. I can highly recommend it.

Petr Hlavac wrote:

After my first proper races with TS-PC (BTCC at Brands) I can safely say, that it's money well spent. I guess it works on the same principle as a good pedal set. Unlike cheap equipment which is weak and you need to use "position memory", with a strong brake/feedback you use "muscle memory". It's simply easier. The wheel has just the right amount of power, it feels great, yet it won't rip your hands off. Also, I felt no degradation of feedback, it remained consistent throughout the whole evening. The only problem is that I'll have to hard mount it and reinforce my wooden cockpit, because it shakes quite a lot under the forces generated by the TS-PC. Otherwise I hope it won't break down or degrade with time, because as it is right now, it's all I could wish for. I can highly recommend it.

So against the g25 how well do you think it handled? I'm not the super force feedback type of guy. I've pushed my own vehicle's to the brink of destruction plenty of times but never have felt the same type of feeling threw the wheel. I'm the same as Alberto. I really don't understand why folks have such high forces when my real car at full tilt feels hard but not the same as if you turn up the Ffb

I'm interested in the resolution and feeling of the car gripping the road is more of what I'm after, any thoughts on that feel?

Had a G27 for a couple of years until too much dust got into my pedals (sensor issue). Couldn't be bothered to fix it so I sold that set and went on to a new G29.

Like Alberto, I'm not using using too much FFB, I like smoothness but of course I DO use normal resistance en central steering settings otherwise it's undrivable. Main problem is you cannot feel your car sliding so I'm compensating with my eyes and ears to know what my car is doing.

still using the trusty g25, replaced the pedals with a new g27 set.

i've always gone for a softer force feedback feel. I get the intention; we aren't sitting in a real car experiencing the g-forces, so the ffb is there to give us extra info to what is going on. but when i hear of people turning the forces up really high to "get a workout", and the sheer amount of force some of the new wheels are capable of, i just have to ask why? granted i don't have a full array of real world driving experience, but in the couple cars i have been luck enough to drive, the only time any were hard to turn was at 2mph in the pits. even the cars with manual steering racks, once you were rolling and up to speed, there was very very very little force needed to turn the wheel. there are two main reasons why real drivers get "tired" while driving, the immense concentration/focus which gets the heart rate up, and the physical effort of holding your body/arms in position thru the g-forces. this leads me into the next thing, brakes that are set crazy stiff. people always quote real world "pedal pressure", "f1 drivers have to press with 150kg of force". so they try to set their home sim with a super stiff brake to be "like real life". the important thing to note, g-forces! 12kg of leg at 5g of decel is 60kg with zero effort. there are specific occasions i can recall of deep braking into turn 1 at the glen where i had to actually lift up on my leg to prevent lockup while still trail braking into the turn.

in the end its going to come down to some personal preference, and what you want out of your driving experience. a more forceful wheel or stiffer brake aren't necessarily more "realistic" (even though some of the more expensive stuff will tell you so). im happy with what i have, but if i was going to invest my money would be going toward something that was smoother and capable of more subtle outputs, not something with more force.

Well my rig (a Logitech Momo) needs ridiculous tiny forces for the brakes to reach the stop (not that the construction would stand more), even my lush 'Benz, that trades a lot of force for pedal way, reaches some point where you know that things get serious now. Means you can press the pedal further down for still more braking force, but that's what you got to do then: press the pedal really hard. I'd like to have something in the middle - not that fall-through effect but also not that hit-the-wall effect, but some notable, linear rising force with increasing pedal way.