Historic numbers game

Michael Drechsler wrote:

 I came a bit late for the Rial and Zakspeed of the same year, which happen to be the last F1 cars designed and built in Germany, the first the last one to score points, the other the last to qualify

weren't the toyotas made in germany?

Good point, but they were always japanese entries. Should have added that

Frank Verplanken wrote:

God yes I hated that Monteverdi/Foitek gang ! A damn shame how the Onyx adventure ended .

Yes indeed about the Rial's fuel cell that was its downpoint and cost Cesaris a few results due to late race fuel starvation (Canada '88 being one I think ?).

Woah... but the team was in a steep decline before Monteverdi arrived. Van Rossum's antics took it's toll on the team.

But Peter started to run the team on a shoestring budget and tried to pay the staff way less, which already led to the departure of Jenkins.

Thanks to the debts amassed, I believe he had to sell a lot of his collection, which included Iso Grifos and several F1 cars!

What a freaking tool he was to enter F1 again(he tried in 1961 but had an accident at Hockenheim with his own car)

Afterwards, he took the Cosworth engine and gearbox and created the Hai 650 F1, their marque's last supercar.


Btw: As you know, I live in Binningen(Monteverdi base), the museum closed it's doors for good at the end of 2016. Some cars will get a display at the museum for transport in Lucerne, not sure about the rest(maybe auctioned/sold).

I was at the Geneva car show, Monteverdi had it's swansong with a their own booth, showing off their old cars(Both old and new Hai were there).

There are still rumours they are trying to present a new car sometime in the future(2018?).

Sorry for the long text

Yes true Onyx was in bad shape before Monteverdi stepped in and VR is to blame for sure. Thanks for the update on the Monteverdi fate. What about Karl Foitek ? At least he was a decent driver back in the day.

Tony Dean, who competed in both the European and US F5000 series, taking advantage of the trips over the pond to smuggle tobacco. Didn't end well for him   .

Frank Verplanken wrote:

Yes true Onyx was in bad shape before Monteverdi stepped in and VR is to blame for sure. Thanks for the update on the Monteverdi fate. What about Karl Foitek ? At least he was a decent driver back in the day.

Well, Monteverdi stepped in as I believe Karl Foitek asked him about it(I think there was a 3rd guy, don't recall his name right now) in order to keep his son Gregor in F1 as Brabham had replaced him after the first few rounds.

That was the bad luck of "SJ" though, as he was shown the door so they could install Gregor in the cockpit.

When cash became short and replacement parts sparse, they tried to fix the Onyxes with parts from the car collection.

I can't tell how and why, I mean, what parts could be used for an F1 car?

But as it became imminent that the cars slowly but surely turned into rolling, duct-taped death traps, Karl told Gregor to step out and stopped supporting the team.

According to Wikipedia, Gregor afterwards split with his father as his manager and backer.

Karl focused on selling Ferraris again, as he's the national Ferrari dealer. Gregor later came back(after Le Mans/Nürburgring Sportscars and IndyCar adventures) and also started working in the company.


Actually, I met the former Monteverdi head mechanic Ueli Schüpbach some years ago, thanks to my father. A nice guy, he was pleasantly surprised that young people(well, me) are still interested in motorsport history

Schüpbach is still working on old cars, for example the Chuck Graeminger created Cheetah, at historic racing events like Le Mans Historic


I think he also confirmed that Éric Bernard pushed Gregor Foitek into the wall at Monaco when he was 6th and could have scored a point. It was never shown on broadcast though I believe, only the laps before it...

It's the reason I dislike Bernard

David Jundt wrote:

I can't tell how and why, I mean, what parts could be used for an F1 car?

I remember that yes, wasn't it mostly about Cosworth DFRs he had on some cars he owned ?

David Jundt wrote:

I think he also confirmed that Éric Bernard pushed Gregor Foitek into the wall at Monaco when he was 6th and could have scored a point. It was never shown on broadcast though I believe, only the laps before it... It's the reason I dislike Bernard

I remember that one very well for not only was I here to watch the race (didn't see the Bernard/Foitek collision though), but I also got to sit in Bernard's car after the race while it was brought back to the paddock. It was an awesome experience, the seat was still warm and it all seemed so tiny and confined ! That made my day for sure !

Thanks for the update on Karl Foitek, he seemed like a nice enough guy and a true enthusiast, but I still hated him for kicking my favourite driver out of the team to put his crasher of a son in his seat !

Nice one Jason ! One of the Cunningham Maserati Birdcages right ? Yet another great class of cars for a future mod if you ask me !

Ligier JS2 and its 3-litre V6 Maserati engine

Frank Verplanken wrote:

Nice one Jason ! One of the Cunningham Maserati Birdcages right ? Yet another great class of cars for a future mod if you ask me !

IIRC the Birdcage is already in HGT

Yes both T60 and T61 are but have awful 3D and forgetable physics if I remember correctly. Also pretty much the only such cars in the mod, would love to see Lister-Jags, Cooper Monacos, Lotus 19s, Scarabs, Allards, Sadlers, ...etc. !

Ahem 

Quote :

try not to post too huge pictures for the sake of those of us who do not have the latest 16:9 modern screens . Size of the pictures can easily be edited by using the "Insert Image" button on the posting toolbar above (second one in the block containing the "Youtube" button). Thanks 

Frank Verplanken wrote:

Nice one Jason ! One of the Cunningham Maserati Birdcages right ? Yet another great class of cars for a future mod if you ask me !

They are in the HGT mod, I think. Maybe I'm mistaken.

The last one was 800 px wide, how small do you want them to be?