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 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]

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+21
Laurence Clark
Petr Hlavac
Richard Wilks
Dave Miller
Alberto Ibañez
Simon Wattman
Matthias Weber
Gérard Ryon
Jacob Fredriksson
Raul Jereb
Raymond Riddall
Greg Hunt
Ben Paulet
David Sabre
Yves Plaçais
Jukka Närhi
Pascal Le pihive
Dana Schurer
Mike Becnel
Richard Coxon
Jason White
25 posters
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AuthorMessage
Petr Hlavac
Pro Driver
Petr Hlavac


Number of posts : 811
Age : 39
Location : Brno, Czech Republic
Registration date : 2015-01-11

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue 10 Nov 2015 - 22:32

Richard Coxon wrote:
2 McLaren M23's or a Fittipaldi, Take your pick.

M23 please, it doesn't matter which driver. Thanks a lot :top:
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Laurence Clark
Rookie



Number of posts : 3
Age : 36
Location : England
Registration date : 2015-10-23

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue 10 Nov 2015 - 22:41

Hello

Please may I have Copersucar F5A if possible, I have fixed my wheel now :-D
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Richard Coxon
Racing Legend
Richard Coxon


Number of posts : 16590
Age : 35
Location : Sheffield, England
Registration date : 2012-06-29

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue 10 Nov 2015 - 22:43

Laurence Clark wrote:
Hello

Please may I have Copersucar F5A if possible, I have fixed my wheel now :-D

Of Course, See you on track :top:

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1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 462
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Laurence Clark
Rookie



Number of posts : 3
Age : 36
Location : England
Registration date : 2015-10-23

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue 10 Nov 2015 - 22:46

Great thanks Richard Cool
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Florkin Marc
Pro Driver



Number of posts : 846
Age : 69
Location : Liège-Belguim
Registration date : 2008-11-18

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue 10 Nov 2015 - 23:01

La dernière qu'il reste pour moi: Mc Laren 28

Merci d'avance

Marcus :top:

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1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 66
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Vincent Beretta
Racing Legend
Vincent Beretta


Number of posts : 1398
Age : 44
Location : France
Registration date : 2008-12-15

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed 11 Nov 2015 - 10:06


Merci de me mettre sur la liste d'attente.
Waiting list for me, plz.
:hello:

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1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 3
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Florkin Marc
Pro Driver



Number of posts : 846
Age : 69
Location : Liège-Belguim
Registration date : 2008-11-18

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu 12 Nov 2015 - 16:44

dans le Mod 1978 que je viens de charger, je ne trouve pas la Mc Laren N° 28
C'est quelle équipe ??
scratch
Merci d'avance pour les renseignements


Marcus :cowboy:


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1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 66
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Jason White
Racing Legend
Jason White


Number of posts : 14725
Age : 45
Location : Ferndale, MI USA
Registration date : 2011-12-25

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu 12 Nov 2015 - 16:47

Florkin Marc wrote:
dans le Mod 1978 que je viens de charger, je ne trouve pas la Mc Laren N° 28
C'est quelle équipe ??

Centro Asegurador F1

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1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Ik0uEqBjC0LKiLMueGfA
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https://www.instagram.com/misterjasonwhite/
Florkin Marc
Pro Driver



Number of posts : 846
Age : 69
Location : Liège-Belguim
Registration date : 2008-11-18

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu 12 Nov 2015 - 21:01

Ok Merci Jason


Marcus :top:

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1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 66
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Greg Hunt
Racing Legend
Greg Hunt


Number of posts : 4322
Age : 38
Location : HOSSEGOR
Registration date : 2010-03-25

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed 18 Nov 2015 - 20:14

quelle est en gros la hierarchie des voitures sur ce mod ? , merci Smile

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1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 849
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David Sabre
Racing Legend
David Sabre


Number of posts : 5340
Age : 58
Location : england
Registration date : 2012-02-25

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed 18 Nov 2015 - 21:43

The cars should be ranked as they performed in 1978.
Here's the times that Richard Coxon achieved during his recent testing work (thanks Richard) without making any setup changes.
1st test : 2nd test.
Brabham BT46B : 1:12.1
Lotus 79 : 1:14.2
Arrows A1 : 1:14.7 : 1:14.5
Wolf WR5 : 1:14.9
Arrows FA1 : 1:15.1 : 1:15.2
Lotus 78 : 1:15.2
Wolf WR6 : 1:15.2
Ferrari 312T3 : 1:15.3
Ferrari 312T2 : 1:15.7
Ligier JS9 : 1:15.7
Brabham BT46 : 1:15.8 : 1:15.8 : 1:15.5
Tyrrell 008 : 1:15.8
Brabham BT45C : 1:16.0
McLaren M26 : 1:16.0
Ligier JS7 : 1:16.2
Williams FW06 : 1:16.2
Renault RS01 : 1:16.3
Shadow DN9 : 1:16.5 : 1:16.4
Rebaque Lotus : 1:16.6 : 1:16.8
Surtees TS20 : 1:16.9
Shadow DN8 : 1:17.0 : 1:17.1
Wolf WR3 : 1:17.0
Fittipaldi F5A : 1:17.0 : 1:16.4
Wolf WR1 : 1:17.2
Martini MK23 : 1:17.2
McLaren M23 : 1:17.4
Wolf WR4 : 1:17.5
Surtees TS19 : 1:17.6
Ensign N177 : 1:17.6
ATS HS1 : 1:17.7
Mezario A1 : 1:17.7
ATS D1 : 1:17.8
Theodore TR1 : 1:17.9
Hesketh 308E : 1:17.9

March 781 should be about the same as a M23
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Alberto Ibañez
Racing Legend
Alberto Ibañez


Number of posts : 16788
Age : 119
Location : International Simracing Organisation
Registration date : 2010-09-17

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu 19 Nov 2015 - 12:29

Quote :
Brabham BT46B : 1:12.1

Is that correct or a typo David? scratch 

I believe the 79 is faster ...

_________________
1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Ik0uEqBjC0LKiLMueGfA
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David Sabre
Racing Legend
David Sabre


Number of posts : 5340
Age : 58
Location : england
Registration date : 2012-02-25

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu 19 Nov 2015 - 12:33

Alberto Ibañez wrote:
Quote :
Brabham BT46B : 1:12.1

Is that correct or a typo David? scratch 

I believe the 79 is faster ...
No typo, The Brabham BT46B is the fancar that was only used in Sweden. The Brabham BT46 is further down the list.
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Alberto Ibañez
Racing Legend
Alberto Ibañez


Number of posts : 16788
Age : 119
Location : International Simracing Organisation
Registration date : 2010-09-17

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu 19 Nov 2015 - 12:37

Ah right sorry :top: 

That fancar ... drunken now wonder they banned it after only one race pig

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Ben Paulet
Racing Legend
Ben Paulet


Number of posts : 8291
Age : 48
Location : Cagnes sur mer France
Registration date : 2009-07-29

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu 19 Nov 2015 - 12:44

After some training laps, I have to give up my car. No success to improve my poor 1'24'' mn hotlap, leaving me in the depths of the hotlaps ranking, without luck to fight with someone during the race. :smil20:

_________________
O.K. Just a little pinprick.
There'll be no more aaaaaaaaah!
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David Sabre
Racing Legend
David Sabre


Number of posts : 5340
Age : 58
Location : england
Registration date : 2012-02-25

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu 19 Nov 2015 - 12:49

There is a bit about the car on wikipedia and I'm sure there are other articles if you search for them.

Here's the quote from Lauda.
[quote="Niki Lauda, realised he had to adjust his driving style, mostly for cornering. He found that if he accelerated around corners, the car would "stick" to the road as if it were on rails. wrote:
"][/quote]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46
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Alberto Ibañez
Racing Legend
Alberto Ibañez


Number of posts : 16788
Age : 119
Location : International Simracing Organisation
Registration date : 2010-09-17

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu 19 Nov 2015 - 12:58

Cheers David. Niki had to adjust anyway the following years, when the ground effects appeared on all cars and that was exactly the tecnique: The faster you go, the better it sticks - until it suddenly goes :D

Quote :
After some training laps, I have to give up my car. No success to improve my poor 1'24'' mn hotlap, leaving me in the depths of the hotlaps ranking, without luck to fight with someone during the race.

Sorry to hear that, but at least Vincent can now join the race. Maybe you should tell him in case he misses this  Smile

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1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Ik0uEqBjC0LKiLMueGfA
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David Sabre
Racing Legend
David Sabre


Number of posts : 5340
Age : 58
Location : england
Registration date : 2012-02-25

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu 19 Nov 2015 - 13:04

Ben Paulet wrote:
After some training laps, I have to give up my car. No success to improve my poor 1'24'' mn hotlap, leaving me in the depths of the hotlaps ranking, without luck to fight with someone during the race. :smil20:
Thats a shame Ben, will you be commentating ?
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Ben Paulet
Racing Legend
Ben Paulet


Number of posts : 8291
Age : 48
Location : Cagnes sur mer France
Registration date : 2009-07-29

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu 19 Nov 2015 - 13:27

David Sabre wrote:
Ben Paulet wrote:
After some training laps, I have to give up my car. No success to improve my poor 1'24'' mn hotlap, leaving me in the depths of the hotlaps ranking, without luck to fight with someone during the race. :smil20:
Thats a shame Ben, will you be commentating ?
Yes, I'll make the broadcast. :frank:

@Alberto, indeed I go to PM him.

_________________
O.K. Just a little pinprick.
There'll be no more aaaaaaaaah!
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Richard Coxon
Racing Legend
Richard Coxon


Number of posts : 16590
Age : 35
Location : Sheffield, England
Registration date : 2012-06-29

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu 19 Nov 2015 - 13:30

That quote David mentioned was what Lauda said about the "Fan Car" as when you accelerated the car was sucked to the ground, so as the quote says he had to learn to accelerate more when cornering so the fan would spin and therefore suck the car to the ground.

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1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 462
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Alberto Ibañez
Racing Legend
Alberto Ibañez


Number of posts : 16788
Age : 119
Location : International Simracing Organisation
Registration date : 2010-09-17

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu 19 Nov 2015 - 13:37

Quote :
That quote David mentioned was what Lauda said about the "Fan Car" as when you accelerated the car was sucked to the ground, so as the quote says he had to learn to accelerate more when cornering so the fan would spin and therefore suck the car to the ground.

Yes the damned thing had the fan connected via clutches to the crankshaft, hence the faster the engine went, the more air it sucked. But the later ground effects car that worked passively based on the venturi effect had pretty much the same traits. The faster you went (The faster the air streamed over the shaped surfaces) the more its sticked - up until the point where tire grip was exceeded and the car suddenly went off. The difference with the Brabham is that in this one you could control fan air flow with gearing (You could rev up the engine in a lower gear and get more grip for the same speed) whereas the true ground effect cars depended on real travelling speed.

In the end when racing at competition speeds, they worked the same, go faster through the corner (one to get more engine/fan speed the other to get more airflow over the venturis). drunken

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1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Ik0uEqBjC0LKiLMueGfA
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Richard Coxon
Racing Legend
Richard Coxon


Number of posts : 16590
Age : 35
Location : Sheffield, England
Registration date : 2012-06-29

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu 19 Nov 2015 - 13:43

A very clever design which was legal due to a loophole, so if Bernie hadn't wanted to run F1 Mario probably wouldn't have won the championship that year I imagine, but as we know Bernie withdrew it much to the annoyance of Gordon Murray.

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Alberto Ibañez
Racing Legend
Alberto Ibañez


Number of posts : 16788
Age : 119
Location : International Simracing Organisation
Registration date : 2010-09-17

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu 19 Nov 2015 - 13:52

Well I think that like the Chaparral, the Nascar winged cars and many other innovations that brought dramatic increases in speed to fast too soon, they would have been copied quickly *had they not been banned for good inmediately*. Don't forget that Brabham did the fan car in a short time after realizing the superiority of the Lotus 79, so I guess many other teams could have done it also. Specially Lotus, who already had an underbody sealed for the ground effects. Adding a fan in the rear to speed up the air under the body would just have increased the efficiency of an already sound design and put again Lotus at the front (Maybe even more so).

Fact is, the BT46 was damned ilegal as it implied using a moveable element to produce aero grip, something against the rules and quite different from the Lotus 79 principles - the car was effectively just a huge passive wing.

So I guess that Bernie just backed up before something worse happened.  :D

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Richard Coxon
Racing Legend
Richard Coxon


Number of posts : 16590
Age : 35
Location : Sheffield, England
Registration date : 2012-06-29

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu 19 Nov 2015 - 14:25

It was legal because the fan was for 60 percent cooling and the other 40 percent for sucking, that was the loophole, so it was deemed a cooling device, and not a moveable aero device Murray made sure of this so that the car was legal, those were his words in an interview I read.

Yes Colin Chapman had already already told his engineers to start developing a fan car after qualifying at Sweden.


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1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 462
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Alberto Ibañez
Racing Legend
Alberto Ibañez


Number of posts : 16788
Age : 119
Location : International Simracing Organisation
Registration date : 2010-09-17

1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]   1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd] - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu 19 Nov 2015 - 14:31

Quote :
40 percent for sucking

That is 40% ilegal, i.e. ilegal lol!

Murray had his interpretation of the rules, bending them.

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1978 BRDC International Trophy - Silverstone [Nov 22nd]
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