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 F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...

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Alessio Campigotto
Karel Marciniszyn
Alberto Ibañez
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Matthew Allington
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Matthew Allington


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PostSubject: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeWed 30 Apr 2014 - 22:53

http://www.virtualr.net/no-more-formula-one-modding-content-on-virtualr

If this is anything to go by, then a good proportion of the modding community is f@#%&d.

I feel it may be Codemasters who are partly behind it, because they have the most to lose from it, but hard to say.

Considering the exposure the sport and sponsors get from these mods, it is a very disappointing course of action for them to take.
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Damian Baldi
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Damian Baldi


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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeWed 30 Apr 2014 - 23:25

Very bad news, they are trying to shut up a pig with punches
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Richard Coxon
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Richard Coxon


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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeThu 1 May 2014 - 0:29

I think it just means they won't advertise them anymore, Probably because, I mean I could be wrong, it's because they recieve payment from companies for advertising space. Where as say rfactor Central doesn't.

As long as a company isn't making money while the F1 name or teams are used, they won't be in any trouble.

Look at BATracer, they got warned by Ferrari for using their name, if they didn't (as it is now) or charge money there would be no problem. But still a shame, and doesn't put formula one in a good light.

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Damian Baldi
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Damian Baldi


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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeThu 1 May 2014 - 1:04

the unfriendly side of all this is that Formula One does not need this money.
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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeThu 1 May 2014 - 7:20

Richard Coxon wrote:
As long as a company isn't making money while the F1 name or teams are used, they won't be in any trouble.

Let's see : Porsche Cup mods taken down and cars renamed, iRacket suing NR2003 modders, BTCC mods not allowed... and that's off the top of my head.

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Martin Audran
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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeThu 1 May 2014 - 8:17

JP Campmajo wrote:
Richard Coxon wrote:
As long as a company isn't making money while the F1 name or teams are used, they won't be in any trouble.

Let's see : Porsche Cup mods taken down and cars renamed, iRacket suing NR2003 modders, BTCC mods not allowed... and that's off the top of my head.

A.C.O. prohibiting any events which looks like a Le Mans 24 hours race...

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Matthew Allington
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Matthew Allington


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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeThu 1 May 2014 - 8:47

I hear that FOM have even issued an order to iRacing to remove content. Clearly not afraid to take it to the big guns. Next thing you know, they'll be suing kids who make Lego toy cars...
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Alberto Ibañez
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Alberto Ibañez


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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeThu 1 May 2014 - 9:08

Quote :
A.C.O. prohibiting any events which looks like a Le Mans 24 hours race...

Virtual events? Didn't know that, and besides I don't think they have currently any official game (Or do they?) there was one some years ago and I had it, but it was crap.

BTW, wonder if this will somehow affect the historic F1 mods? And even GPL!!!  Shocked 

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Martin Audran
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Martin Audran


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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeThu 1 May 2014 - 9:24

Alberto Ibañez wrote:
Quote :
A.C.O. prohibiting any events which looks like a Le Mans 24 hours race...

Virtual events? Didn't know that, and besides I don't think they have currently any official game (Or do they?) there was one some years ago and I had it, but it was crap.

One or two years ago Endurance Inside wanted to organize a 24 Hours of Le Mans event with the Endurance-Series mod but the A.C.O prohibited it, with lawsuit threats. Some virtual Le Mans 24 hours events happenned before that (GTR², NR2003), but never after this case with Endurance Inside I think.  Crying or Very sad 

Endurance-Inside decided to use a fantasy track for their race. Which was great fun though.

The only way to do a proper Le Mans 24 hours now is to keep it private with only people we know well and without live coverage, but with these conditions it will be hard to fill the grid.

Otherwise there was 2 official games of the 24 hours of Le Mans, the first one for PC and the second one for Dreamcast and PS2. I had the 3 versions  :D But it was long before I began with real simracing. Maybe there will be a new one, now that the FIA and the A.C.O. works together for the WEC.

Alberto Ibañez wrote:
BTW, wonder if this will somehow affect the historic F1 mods? And even GPL!!!  Shocked 

I don't know for the historic F1 mods (maybe we'll have to cancel our F1 65 series because of the billions of euros we make with it  :D ) but I'm pretty sure GPL had licenses (except for Cooper and Honda).

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Alberto Ibañez
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Alberto Ibañez


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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeThu 1 May 2014 - 9:50

Quote :
I don't know for the historic F1 mods (maybe we'll have to cancel our F1 65 series because of the billions of euros we make with it :D ) but I'm pretty sure GPL had licenses (except for Cooper and Honda).

Yes of course I meant the mods, I know GPL itself was licensed (Except the Murasama thing and other mino details  :hihi: ). I really hope those ba$tard$ ignore at least the historic content and let the community continue using it.

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Richard Coxon
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Richard Coxon


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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeThu 1 May 2014 - 10:00

I can't see how mods will be under threat while they are free to use, if they start making money off them, Ex. We had to pay coms to download and play it, or F1SR for the 1991 mod, then they are making money off those teams involved and their using those companies names without permission to make money, Which I'm guessing is some sort of copyright. But I assumed as long as no profit is made on the mod/item then it is ok to use.

But wouldn't surprise me if I'm massively wrong! I'm just a dumb nut for Yorkshire  :hihi: 

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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeThu 1 May 2014 - 10:05

You can't see it happening, but it already happened multiple times. See above.
iRacket essentially killed modding in NR2003 (outside of NASCAR stuff which had the same physics) for example, because it was too close to iRacket, and was a threat for their business !

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Alberto Ibañez
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Alberto Ibañez


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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeThu 1 May 2014 - 10:10

Quote :
Which I'm guessing is some sort of copyright. But I assumed as long as no profit is made on the mod/item then it is ok to use.

Yes it's a kind of copyright. Legally speaking you can do what you want privately, but not share it publically. Copyright holders just ignore it as long as no money is involved, but sometimes they feel that it can hurt their business, and then they enforce their rights.

Fact is, when you have a good mod for a good basic game that results in something better than what someone else can do by developing a new game from scratch and spending millions of dollars on the way, you might get into trouble quickly. There were very good indycar mods for rFactor at the time their official licensed game was absolute crap, and the same goes for Nascar after the Papyrus era, so Nascar got serious about banning them.

And iRacing themselves know that NR2003 still could hurt their paid members base if code changes are done and the game evolved, and that's why they shut down any attempt at that. After all, the iracing user is not after graphics and NR2003 can still be made to look decent, so if you get same quality physics and loads of new cars and tracks for free, you are never going to give your money to iracing.

EDIT: JP and me cross posted.

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Richard Coxon
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Richard Coxon


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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeThu 1 May 2014 - 10:11

Sorry JP, I didn't get what you meant with the Iracket, but do now  :aie: but regarding the BTCC mods, I didn't know action was taken against them. Only ones I knew out there was several seasons for race 07 and 93/94 for f1C but got converted to every other game. And obviously TCL.

Wierd the BTCC one, as no games are out regarding them apart from the old Toca 1&2 games or is that Iracket again as you call it  Razz because they have rights on the Civic.

Cheers for the insight Alberto, It's a shame but I understand more now, and your right, who would want to pay say £30 for a new game, when there is a modders content out their for free which is exactly the same, but better.

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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeThu 1 May 2014 - 10:22

About BTCC mods, like F1 mods, I don't think they particularly care about historic content.
But I've seen some modern BTCC mod called something else like BTWC.

From what I understood, BTCC wanted to keep their options open if they wanted to licence a game or something.
rF2 has the Civic, but that's just a licence with Honda on one car, not the championship itself. I guess it's the same with iRacing.

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Karel Marciniszyn
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Karel Marciniszyn


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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeThu 1 May 2014 - 10:31

this is all fucking stupid...till I didn´t get any money from that I am free to do anything...all these things must one day come to an end...
same stupidity as all these patent wars...greeks should get a patent on the wheel...and ask for payment anyone who use this "technology"...

world is going in one big asshole...

And F1 is already there  :D

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Matthew Allington
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Matthew Allington


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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeFri 2 May 2014 - 14:27

Bingo. Moderator's quote from a GP4 modding forum...

"This action has been brought on by FOM. It is about the F1 trademark. Given that there are rumours that F1 is to be sold, a tightening of the trademark and copyright over said trademark is good business practice. If you want to release a mod, don't use F1 in the header.
I fail to see how any action by FOM over the use of the word F1 can get any legs in court, given that there have already been a number of cases over its use which have subsequently failed. An Australian trucking company F1Logistics fought FOM and won.
The cars and the logos, and the names of the drivers displayed on them belong to the teams, not to FOM. The use of this has been licensed to Codemasters, therefore it could be seen that Codemasters has a vested interest ensuring that no-one else produces a sim for another gaming platform whilst they are paying license fees. Never mind that the product is crap by all accounts, it comes down to protection of intellectual property and the money, paid out to F1 and the potential loss of earnings by Codemasters having its product running on another platform.
So, to sum up, having said that the cars, logos etc, belong to the teams, I do not see a problem with releasing a likeness mod on the proviso it does not contain the word F1."
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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeFri 2 May 2014 - 15:13

Matthew Allington wrote:
I fail to see how any action by FOM over the use of the word F1 can get any legs in court, given that there have already been a number of cases over its use which have subsequently failed.

Yep, but the problem is, they are against an insanely rich company with their army of lawyers.
Even if they have no chance of winning, they could take them to the court and try to make your life as miserable as possible, and the actions as long as they can so you lose heaps of money in lawyers, and your morale as well.
That's the way the world goes with rich people.

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Matthew Allington
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Matthew Allington


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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeSat 3 May 2014 - 17:05

Looking at the various posts from one modding site, and a quick look at Codies' Twitter feed* (through indirect suggestion), it seems that this is indeed Codies' doing, with the manhunt showing a particular focus on stuff based from 2010 onwards (the years which Codies have had the license for) hence suggesting that the HSO will be fine, and the modders have suggested the same as Florian (i.e. scratch-built stuff should be fine). Another theory is that the F1 trademark is being tightened upon, which is "good business practice" amidst rumors that F1 is to be sold in the near future.

*Tweet in question, nobody's pointed the finger to anything other than the already-hit VirtualR: https://twitter.com/Formula1game/status ... 5031486464
Seems Codies are on the hunt for other modding sites to take down  Evil or Very Mad
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Matthew Allington
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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeSat 3 May 2014 - 20:14

Newsflash: Retro Formula 1 has also been contacted and told to change their name.

This suggests, as it is a merchandise site and has nothing to do with F1 modding, that it's not just us rFactor lads who have been subject to the trademark crackdown. In addition, it comfirms that if found, historic mods may also be under threat, not just post-2009 stuffs.

It also proves that Codies aren't the only ones we need to look out for - this is FOM at the core.
Hence I do suspect that this is, as suggested, the F1 trademark being tightened upon, which is "good business practice" amidst rumors that F1 is to be sold in the near future, blah blah blah...

It is quite fortunate, though, that in their case, it is merely a name change, so the threat to historic mods may still not be so great  Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeSat 3 May 2014 - 20:20

Except for the "F1" term, historic mods (pre 1974 at least) can't be worried by FOM.
HSO would just have to change F1 1965 to GP 1965 and that's about it.

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Alessio Campigotto
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Alessio Campigotto


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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeSat 3 May 2014 - 20:24

Not much to worry about, wouldn't have downloaded any modern F1 mods anyway.

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Matthew Allington
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Matthew Allington


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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeSun 4 May 2014 - 7:57

Looking at the F1 website, it seems that as long as the name and logo aren't used, we should be fine :top:
Said page also reveals that the Retro Formula 1 debarcle is an entirely seperate matter.
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Gabriele Maruca
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Gabriele Maruca


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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeSun 4 May 2014 - 12:31

JP Campmajo wrote:
Except for the "F1" term, historic mods (pre 1974 at least) can't be worried by FOM.
HSO would just have to change F1 1965 to GP 1965 and that's about it.

Actually I've did some researches and everyone can use "Formula One" and "F1", but you have to do mods before 1974 (excluded): so everything goes until you are from 1950 to 1973, 23 years ain't bad  Razz 
This is because the FOCA (Formula One Constructors Association) was founded in 1974 by Bernie Ecclestone in order to help the teams get a better revenue from radio and TV broadcasting as well as advertising. Only in 1978 the FISA handed to Ecclestone the management of commercial and braodcasting rights, so the "1974 rule" has been enforced since then.

So, in logic, we can use Formula One, F1, Formula 1, Formel Eins, Formel 1, Formula Uno, Formule Un and Formule 1 without problems, but we have to stick to classic mods and leagues. The only ones that can sue us or call us out can be the Makers, but it depends on the mod: for example, Team Player's 1955 mod can be called out only by Mercedes, CROMS's 1965 can be called out only by Ferrari, Honda, BMW (because Cooper is theirs since 2001) and Proton (Lotus's owners).
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Frank Verplanken


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PostSubject: Re: F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans...   F1 doesn't seem to care about the fans... Icon_minitimeSun 4 May 2014 - 14:50

Gabriele Maruca wrote:
Actually I've did some researches and everyone can use "Formula One" and "F1", but you have to do mods before 1974 (excluded): so everything goes until you are from 1950 to 1973, 23 years ain't bad  Razz 

1950-73 makes 24 seasons Razz Laughing but anyway the name F1 goes back to 1946 so I guess we got 28 seasons we can mod without having to worry about Bernard Ecclestone and his sharks Smile . Personnally I always prefer the term "Grand Prix", as it's much more proper than F1 - Grand Prix racing and the WDC was not always for F1 cars (cf 1952-53 for instance).

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