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 Setup assistance-want car to go the distance

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James Knowles
Pro Driver
James Knowles


Number of posts : 757
Age : 53
Location : USA
Registration date : 2012-04-16

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PostSubject: Setup assistance-want car to go the distance   Setup assistance-want car to go the distance Icon_minitimeWed 12 Jun 2013 - 15:54

Hello all,
Cming to grips with the Williams-I am told it is the fatest of the lot-but I feel a bit disconnected from the car..

First things first:

1) I want the car to last to the end of the race-and have dropped max revs as advised in Gui's post-what mixture settings will help make engine go the distance and extehnd fuel mileage-or is this a trial and error thing?

2) Do any of you have any tips on steering lock and degrees of rotation to use with this mod? This morning I was running with Anders-and 360 degrees of rottaion and a lock of 12 had my hands travelling far too  much.

3) Any quick tips on achieveing a neutral steering car? I had time to try a few things, but even negating the front sway bar still left me with a car that understeered.



Any advice is appreciated. I'm brand new to this mod-and just want to do the car soem justice.

Thanks for it all,

James

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Tiago Malafaya
Racing Legend
Tiago Malafaya


Number of posts : 3384
Age : 45
Location : Porto, Portugal
Registration date : 2008-10-05

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PostSubject: Re: Setup assistance-want car to go the distance   Setup assistance-want car to go the distance Icon_minitimeThu 13 Jun 2013 - 12:18

For the car to last the race: reduce at least 150, 200 rpm and always lift the throttle during upshifts, check the radiator to see if the car doesn't start to overheat, do the same for the brakes (ducts) and check if they don't past 600º too much; also important, always put the disk width at max for the race (2.6 cm). Can't help you with mix because I don't know the average fuel per lap

My steering lock is always at 16.5, 17. That way in fast turns I don't move my hands too much and in slow turns I move a bit more, which gives me a bit more precision

These cars have a natural tendency to understeer; the best way to reduce that is to have a stiffer rearend (shocks, springs); strangely the car tends to be more oversteery with less sway bar at the rear than in the front, or maybe it's only my car

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James Knowles
Pro Driver
James Knowles


Number of posts : 757
Age : 53
Location : USA
Registration date : 2012-04-16

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PostSubject: Re: Setup assistance-want car to go the distance   Setup assistance-want car to go the distance Icon_minitimeThu 13 Jun 2013 - 12:26

Tiago-many thanks. This will be helpful.

I had not given any attention to the rear shocks and springs-perhaps this will help.

Cheers...

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Tiago Malafaya
Racing Legend
Tiago Malafaya


Number of posts : 3384
Age : 45
Location : Porto, Portugal
Registration date : 2008-10-05

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PostSubject: Re: Setup assistance-want car to go the distance   Setup assistance-want car to go the distance Icon_minitimeThu 13 Jun 2013 - 14:05

I usually have very low values in the front shocks (between 10-20) and higher at the rear (30-40); forgot to mention, do not increase too much the negative value of the front toe in, the car tends to understeer when having too much negative value (I use -0.05)

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James Knowles
Pro Driver
James Knowles


Number of posts : 757
Age : 53
Location : USA
Registration date : 2012-04-16

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PostSubject: Re: Setup assistance-want car to go the distance   Setup assistance-want car to go the distance Icon_minitimeThu 13 Jun 2013 - 15:27

Tiago Malafaya wrote:
I usually have very low values in the front shocks (between 10-20) and higher at the rear (30-40); forgot to mention, do not increase too much the negative value of the front toe in, the car tends to understeer when having too much negative value (I use -0.05)

Tiago-again, many thanks!

I will do my best to facilitate your passing on Sunday..

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Tiago Malafaya
Racing Legend
Tiago Malafaya


Number of posts : 3384
Age : 45
Location : Porto, Portugal
Registration date : 2008-10-05

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PostSubject: Re: Setup assistance-want car to go the distance   Setup assistance-want car to go the distance Icon_minitimeThu 13 Jun 2013 - 15:54

lol! I'm not sure that will happen

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James Knowles
Pro Driver
James Knowles


Number of posts : 757
Age : 53
Location : USA
Registration date : 2012-04-16

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PostSubject: Re: Setup assistance-want car to go the distance   Setup assistance-want car to go the distance Icon_minitimeThu 13 Jun 2013 - 15:56

Tiago Malafaya wrote:
lol! I'm not sure that will happen

Tiago-if you have time-please generate a stable setup for the Williams at Hungary.

There is an archived Williams setup, but it is a qualifying setup for a different track.

I cannot get a linear steering input for some reason, and it makes the car problematic to drive...

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Tiago Malafaya
Racing Legend
Tiago Malafaya


Number of posts : 3384
Age : 45
Location : Porto, Portugal
Registration date : 2008-10-05

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PostSubject: Re: Setup assistance-want car to go the distance   Setup assistance-want car to go the distance Icon_minitimeThu 13 Jun 2013 - 18:03

Do you have dead zone in your control settings? Also you should set the sensitivity way down in this mod; plus it requires some practice. It's not a seat-and-drive mod Wink

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James Knowles
Pro Driver
James Knowles


Number of posts : 757
Age : 53
Location : USA
Registration date : 2012-04-16

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PostSubject: Re: Setup assistance-want car to go the distance   Setup assistance-want car to go the distance Icon_minitimeThu 13 Jun 2013 - 18:21

Tiago Malafaya wrote:
Do you have dead zone in your control settings? Also you should set the sensitivity way down in this mod; plus it requires some practice. It's not a seat-and-drive mod Wink

I'll check on the dead zones-i am not certain, but I don't believe so...

Sensitivities-I will play with these values a bit-thanks.

Yes-practice practice practice. I do find this car easier to drive than some other mods-it's not too bad, just need to find stability and speed...

Tiago-many thanks

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Tiago Malafaya
Racing Legend
Tiago Malafaya


Number of posts : 3384
Age : 45
Location : Porto, Portugal
Registration date : 2008-10-05

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PostSubject: Re: Setup assistance-want car to go the distance   Setup assistance-want car to go the distance Icon_minitimeThu 13 Jun 2013 - 19:56

The Williams is the easiest thing in the world comparing to the others.

Most important thing first; get to know the car, after that you try to push it, and only then start to tune it to make it faster

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James Knowles
Pro Driver
James Knowles


Number of posts : 757
Age : 53
Location : USA
Registration date : 2012-04-16

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PostSubject: Re: Setup assistance-want car to go the distance   Setup assistance-want car to go the distance Icon_minitimeThu 13 Jun 2013 - 20:04

Tiago Malafaya wrote:
The Williams is the easiest thing in the world comparing to the others.

Most important thing first; get to know the car, after that you try to push it, and only then start to tune it to make it faster

"Easiest thing"-this is what I need. You have raced with me heer Tiago.

I am still at step 1 "get to know the car"...hopefully can be at Step two before Sunday  Very Happy

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Samuli Leinonen
Club Driver
Samuli Leinonen


Number of posts : 181
Age : 44
Location : Helsinki
Registration date : 2012-12-18

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PostSubject: Re: Setup assistance-want car to go the distance   Setup assistance-want car to go the distance Icon_minitimeFri 14 Jun 2013 - 8:34

[quote=1) I want the car to last to the end of the race-and have dropped max revs as advised in Gui's post-what mixture settings will help make engine go the distance and extehnd fuel mileage-or is this a trial and error thing?]

Mixture doesn't affect engine lifetime, at least not noticeably. Over revving does. Tiago pointed out the rest.

2) Do any of you have any tips on steering lock and degrees of rotation to use with this mod? This morning I was running with Anders-and 360 degrees of rottaion and a lock of 12 had my hands travelling far too  much.

This is personal preference. I use 450 degree rotation and my locks for this season have been between 10 and 15 iirc. Slip angle in this mod is very steep and therefore I like the precision my settings provide. In general I think people are driving with too "quick" steering where they use very small hand movements. Not very precise and is tyre consuming style.

3) Any quick tips on achieveing a neutral steering car? I had time to try a few things, but even negating the front sway bar still left me with a car that understeered.

Cars are different in this mod so it's hard to say. With Lotus I use even, or very close to even suspension stiffness, ARB's, dampers and wings both front and rear. Depending on style of corners I might use tad harder setting on rear. My front wing is usually 1-2 clicks smaller than rear. Tyre temperatures and camber and ride height play huge factor in terms of balance. Diff doesn't make big difference imo.

[/quote]

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Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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David Jundt
Racing Legend
David Jundt


Number of posts : 2647
Age : 33
Location : Binningen, Switzerland
Registration date : 2012-07-14

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PostSubject: Re: Setup assistance-want car to go the distance   Setup assistance-want car to go the distance Icon_minitimeFri 14 Jun 2013 - 18:34

Btw Samuli: You are using Leo's FFB + FFB Tuner, aren't you?

I am thinking of using it, especially for this mod. Not sure if it's the nature of the Minardi, but the constant guessing if or if I am not spinning with the weird slip angles makes it very hard for me to drive on the edge.

An example as to why I still could go faster: Trying to be overly cautious rather than risking more.

_________________
Murray: "JUNDT'S OFF-TRACK AGAIN!"

Martin: "That's a replay Murray, he's not even in the race anymore."

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James Knowles
Pro Driver
James Knowles


Number of posts : 757
Age : 53
Location : USA
Registration date : 2012-04-16

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PostSubject: Re: Setup assistance-want car to go the distance   Setup assistance-want car to go the distance Icon_minitimeFri 14 Jun 2013 - 18:40

Samuli Leinonen wrote:
[quote=1) I want the car to last to the end of the race-and have dropped max revs as advised in Gui's post-what mixture settings will help make engine go the distance and extehnd fuel mileage-or is this a trial and error thing?]

Mixture doesn't affect engine lifetime, at least not noticeably. Over revving does. Tiago pointed out the rest.

2) Do any of you have any tips on steering lock and degrees of rotation to use with this mod? This morning I was running with Anders-and 360 degrees of rottaion and a lock of 12 had my hands travelling far too  much.

This is personal preference. I use 450 degree rotation and my locks for this season have been between 10 and 15 iirc. Slip angle in this mod is very steep and therefore I like the precision my settings provide. In general I think people are driving with too "quick" steering where they use very small hand movements. Not very precise and is tyre consuming style.

3) Any quick tips on achieveing a neutral steering car? I had time to try a few things, but even negating the front sway bar still left me with a car that understeered.

Cars are different in this mod so it's hard to say. With Lotus I use even, or very close to even suspension stiffness, ARB's, dampers and wings both front and rear. Depending on style of corners I might use tad harder setting on rear. My front wing is usually 1-2 clicks smaller than rear. Tyre temperatures and camber and ride height play huge factor in terms of balance. Diff doesn't make big difference imo.

[/quote]


Samuli-many thanks. Working diligently at gaining some seconds...cheers...

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Tiago Malafaya
Racing Legend
Tiago Malafaya


Number of posts : 3384
Age : 45
Location : Porto, Portugal
Registration date : 2008-10-05

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PostSubject: Re: Setup assistance-want car to go the distance   Setup assistance-want car to go the distance Icon_minitimeFri 14 Jun 2013 - 19:31

lol! David,

Since you heard Gui talking for the first time about the slip angle, you just keep on going about it...

That's the same thing to say: "I'm not sure if I'll drive the car as fast as I could because it understeers"......

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David Jundt
Racing Legend
David Jundt


Number of posts : 2647
Age : 33
Location : Binningen, Switzerland
Registration date : 2012-07-14

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PostSubject: Re: Setup assistance-want car to go the distance   Setup assistance-want car to go the distance Icon_minitimeFri 14 Jun 2013 - 20:14

I noticed a strange behaviour of the car before(sudden loss of grip and resulting spins), but I couldn't name it as I didn't know what it was exactely.

So quiet over there:jp:

Also, other F1 mods weren't so difficult in that way.

_________________
Murray: "JUNDT'S OFF-TRACK AGAIN!"

Martin: "That's a replay Murray, he's not even in the race anymore."

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Samuli Leinonen
Club Driver
Samuli Leinonen


Number of posts : 181
Age : 44
Location : Helsinki
Registration date : 2012-12-18

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PostSubject: Re: Setup assistance-want car to go the distance   Setup assistance-want car to go the distance Icon_minitimeMon 17 Jun 2013 - 12:15

David Jundt wrote:
Btw Samuli: You are using Leo's FFB + FFB Tuner, aren't you?

Yes

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Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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David Jundt
Racing Legend
David Jundt


Number of posts : 2647
Age : 33
Location : Binningen, Switzerland
Registration date : 2012-07-14

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PostSubject: Re: Setup assistance-want car to go the distance   Setup assistance-want car to go the distance Icon_minitimeMon 17 Jun 2013 - 19:25

Last race was quite okay(finally), but the car just feels weird to drive with a full fuel tank. If the feedback can be improved, I won't mind having a go if I understand what I'll need to do...

What I mean with weird behaviour: The car behaves like it turns/rotates around an imaginary center axle instead of front and rear axle, because sometimes, oversteer kicks in into a corner, but the car rights itself resulting in understeer, it kind of feels like the front and rear are indpedent from each other.

Or maybe... it's just that I drive weird and brake too late(but boy I've seen you guys brake late and steady, it can't just all be my driving style then or I don't see you struggling yourself from outside).

_________________
Murray: "JUNDT'S OFF-TRACK AGAIN!"

Martin: "That's a replay Murray, he's not even in the race anymore."

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https://www.facebook.com/David-Jundt-450976341729894/
Oscar Hardwick
Club Driver
Oscar Hardwick


Number of posts : 162
Age : 28
Location : United Kingdom
Registration date : 2012-10-14

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PostSubject: Re: Setup assistance-want car to go the distance   Setup assistance-want car to go the distance Icon_minitimeThu 20 Jun 2013 - 12:47

I've recently found lots of people to be having issues with steering and what not. 

Just my settings that never cause me issues. Running 450 degrees of lock in the G27 itself, 21-23 degrees of steering lock in game (Fantastic settings for tyre conservation and tight corners). I also advise that you make sure the in game speed sensitive steering is set to 0%. This will feel twitchy at first but as you get used to it you will find that you have far more control over the direction of your car, particularly in faster corners. Recently got a team mate of mine at another league to use these settings and he was finding upwards of 4 extra laps of tyre life and 2-5 tenths of pace in formula 1 style cars on heavy fuel so not a million miles away from this format. 

In terms of setup what the guys are saying here is pretty much what you need to do. I would just make sure you start by running as safe as you can i.e. everything on it's lowest settings and build it up over a few events. Also if you can manage a twitchy car under braking run the engine braking at 0 as it saves fuel. 

In terms of under-steer I have one thing that will certainly help. I forget how much you can change the diff settings on these cars but if you run the preload between 1 and 3, coast at 0, power at 2-7 and the other setting (which has a name escaping me at the moment) about 10 higher than the power you will find that you have less turn in and on throttle understeer. 

Hope that helps anyone who was struggling. 

Oscar.

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