Assetto Corsa

I have no intention of racing AC online this is my choice to take whatever I want on track offline .... If I want to race online then I'm afraid it's got to be rfactor for the next 10 years.. There is nothing in rf2 that takes my interest at the moment ....

I fully agree with Gui, it's depressing to see so much work going into some content not featuring one full carset of cars . Do they plan on ever doing some full carsets for AC or is it just going to be some content à la iRacing ?

I hear you Carl, you make a valid point indeed regarding offline/online, but I still find it's a pity that simracing has been totally canibalized by arcade fantasy content. If you look back 20 years ago, titles who deserved the name of simulators all had an accurate content with full carsets and track packs (the Papyrus and Hammond sims for instance), while only the arcade stuff had a collection of various cars to be raced on a mix of more or less realistic tracks. Now it's all Gran Turismo in sheep clothing .

You didn't like the 1960s single-seaters in rF2 Carlos ? I thought they were great !

I haven't tried AC, but i find it hard to pay for something where i can't even do a full race with pitstops. Hell, people can say bad about Gran Turismo, but the game had at least a career mode and racing weekends. AC at the moment seems like a glorified hot lapper. ( i won't comment physics, altough i wasn't impressed by some videos i saw).

Its also funny to note that even arcade games back in the day could be based on real series (ferrari 355, scud race, etc). But then again, i prefer the term "casual racing game" to describe the less serious things.


I guess what disappoints me the most about most new sims, apart from what Alberto already refered regarding the lack of a full pack of cars, is the AI. When the best AI ever made is the one from Grand Prix 4, FIFTEEN YEARS ago, something is very wrong

Rfactor can be an exception to my criticism, because its created as a modding tool from the onset, but still, i can't wait to see some good FULL mods come out for rfactor2, so i can justify to myself the purchase.

Driving wise, you're not missing anything in AC. If you absolutely want to try it, download first and buy later if you're satisfied. AC didn't last 5 minutes on my HDD.
And there are full mods on rF2... modern.

The thing is, casual gamer doesn't care about full fields, except maybe for F1. They want a sim (or, what they think is a sim) version of Gran Turismo. That's why you have AC and pCars.
And then you have the price of licences. In rF2, you have the 1966 Brabham, and you'll have the 1966 Eagle. Ferrari, Honda, McLaren, Lotus will never be created officially by ISI.

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 casual gamer doesn't care about full fields, except maybe for F1. They want a sim (or, what they think is a sim) version of Gran Turismo. That's why you have AC and pCars.

Exactly. We had a true golden era of cult titles with high detail simulations in the 80s and 90s, not just motorports but also in aviation and naval sims. Everything was meticulously recreated within the processing power of PCs of the time and government disclosed data. You got -to name a few- the famed Jane's series of F15, F18, Longbow etc as aviation sims, Aces of the Deep and Silent Hunter 1 in naval sims, and Papyrus titles in simracing. Those were sims that took a long time of research and programming to create accurately, destined mainly to niche markets that gave enough profit back then. Not coincidentally, their sales continued unabated during many years after release and had strong communities supporting them. Those were also the years of big spiral-bound manuals that looked like a novel and covered the background of the simulation even more than the pure playing aspect of it.

When consoles became more and more powerful and the kid (vs the adult) the main consumer, we saw a progressive shift towards graphics and quick action as well as a continuos release of new titles each year, with few changes and never ironed out bugs to justify the expense in the new one. The quality sank as if thrown down a cliff, but sales skyrocketed and in turn allowed the copyright holders to request ever increasing licensing fees, feeding back the ever increasing spiral of cost/crap quality/quick release. the appearence of internet and MMOG even accelerated the process.

Only a few niche market sims survived that, both in the military and racing areas (And strategy or course), and all of them ended some time later. What we have nowadays is the result of what is needed to be done to survive doing racing games in the modern times: A) MMOG a la iracing, B) Pay licenses and give arcade to a wide public, a la AC and PCars, or C) Give the companies the single fingered salute and let the modders complete your game for free, a la ISI.

Pick your poison

I really like AC but I have only ever hot lapped in it, AI are appalling and I found it really difficult to get into a server online. The game is much less completed than rF2 also, but some of its content is really good. Found a lot of enjoyment in the F.Abarth and the Lotus 97 but even in rF1 I can get variable weather conditions and more content, and I'm still yet to find a game which gives me anywhere near the same enjoyment as the last gen sims (rF1, GTR2 and Nr2003)

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 the last gen sims (rF1, GTR2 and Nr2003)

Those are not the last gen sims, but could indeed be considered the last gem sims 

I think the problem was not the console market per se, but the need to make a quick profit more in a more consistent basis, together with a certain lack of real car culture, and the rising of license fees.

The first two TOCA racing games are a case of point. They simulated the (brilliant then) BTCC, they had full fields and tracks, but they were "casual" enough to even people on consoles to pick up and enjoy. They really pushed the envelope on graphics back then too. The stcc games that game around that time were a bit more serious, but also brilliant. But these games recreated a series, they were much like the FIFA games. And the FIFA games endure on all platforms, so what went wrong in the car genre?


I think basically what went wrong is that most people are not drawn by real racing that much. Most people that buy GT, or Forza, or AC don't follow any championship in particular, apart maybe from F1, and thats why F1 still has a full field dedicated game coming out. What's left is the hardcore fans, who may want hardcore sims that actually simulate a whole series, and those it seems are fewer and far apart.

Alberto Ibañez wrote:

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 the last gen sims (rF1, GTR2 and Nr2003)

Those are not the last gen sims, but could indeed be considered the last gem sims 

Did I miss a whole generation of sims? Or are you suggesting Race07, iRacing period etc?

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 Or are you suggesting Race07, iRacing period etc?

Yes, latest gen now are iracing, AC, FM etc

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 they were much like the FIFA games. And the FIFA games endure on all platforms, so what went wrong in the car genre?

I think basically what went wrong is that most people are not drawn by real racing that much. Most people that buy GT, or Forza, or AC don't follow any championship in particular, apart maybe from F1, and thats why F1 still has a full field dedicated game coming out.

Yes that is right. Also, almost every kid has an idea of what is involved in playing soccer because they play it at school and can understand and admire the difficulty of doing it right and enjoy the "easyness" of doing it on the screen. But few people realize how damned hard is motorracing and just think it is about pressing the pedal more, as shown on many movies

JP Campmajo wrote:

Well don't worry, it's AC physics. It's not simracing to begin with

You sir, are delusional.

When was the last time you tried AC?

The main problem for "kids" is that the only racing they know is F1 or NASCAR, and considering the current state of both of them, they find it boring, which is understandable considering there are quite a few people even here that don't find F1 entertaining either, so there's not much interest in racing games as a result. Most people I know own either Playstation or Xbox, and most don't even own the standard arcade-sims of GT or Forza and those that do only have them because it came bundled with the console. Although, when I have had friends around they do find the steering wheel interesting-but then few would have the interest in buying due to the prices of the wheels.

Samuli Leinonen wrote:

You sir, are delusional.  

When was the last time you tried AC?

When the physics are crap at the beginning, it doesn't become a full blown sim by miracle in a couple of months. It was the same argument with pCars BTW.

Alessio Campigotto wrote:

Although, when I have had friends around they do find the steering wheel interesting-but then few would have the interest in buying due to the prices of the wheels.

Thats another one, and here i blame the "community". People treat anything below the most expensive fanatecs of thrustmasters as "crap", when i think technology today should allow for considerably cheaper offers with decent quality. But then again, the market isn't there, and the niche people seem to be willing to pay a lot more.. so its a vicious cycle

JP Campmajo wrote:

Samuli Leinonen wrote:

You sir, are delusional.  

When was the last time you tried AC?

When the physics are crap at the beginning, it doesn't become a full blown sim by miracle in a couple of months. It was the same argument with pCars BTW.

I afraid you're quite alone with that opinion

I'm sure I am and I'll let you enjoy your game with the kids

I only did a handful of laps with a Lotus 49 on AC and I didn't find the physics to be particularly good or bad. Nothing that blew my mind for sure, but then I shouldn't give my opinion without having thoroughly tested it I guess. One thing is sure - all the testing in the world won't change my opinion on the textures which I found particularly ugly. I have no interest in iRacing's content, but I reckon its matt textures and stylish appearance are almost as neat as the classy beauty of GPL. None of the other recent sims come close to it imho.

Alberto Ibañez wrote:

Plus AFAIK you can't even do full races and are limited to a certain amount of laps?

Yes, you're capped at around 20 laps if iirc

Kunos built a great game, but it's still very much a beta...and if not, then their content is really dated in terms of lack of weather and a sufficient damage model.

There are some good mods, CTDP's IFM2009 mod is nice for instance, but nothing historic at least in terms of a full grid.

As for the Arcade like physics that you mention , did you  try it on the PRO Realism setting as i can tell you now its far from easy

This is my i've just done 20 laps round Nords in an Alfa 155 face

Anyone remember the days when rFactor 1st came out and if you wanted to race online you had the choice of Renualt meganes or Renault meganes ...

Obviously all these years later we are now spoilt for choice

Carl Larrad wrote:

As for the Arcade like physics that you mention , did you  try it on the PRO Realism setting

Of course. And I played games like F1 2013 or Grid that had pro settings or something called similarly, they were no sims either.

Sorry but You cannot compare AC to any of the **** that comes out from Codemasters

I was still on GPL when rFactor came out so I missed all the excitement of the first months of it . But Gui did that I think . I gotta say the only random lobby racing I did with rFactor was with the said Meganes, twas kinda fun on occasion to race with 30+ strangers on Toban

The old TOCA games were brilliant in their day! Well the BTCC ones that is.

I used to love the Meganes too, Only cars you could get a decent lobby of people to race with.

I'm not the only one that remembers the meganes then ...

Maybe in 10 years time then we will be having the same conversation about rF2 mods and AC
when another game comes along

Maybe rF3 and AC2 even